Has your helmet saved your life poll

[theclaud]

Ah you are female. Apologies, the Claude had me thinking Van damme.
Lady.......

I agree it is boring and very much over cooked. More annoying, i find, is the way these debates always turn borderline nasty. I have an extremely good going nature but find myself being lowered to the same tone. All because we either do or don't wear a helmet??

Lets leave it there shall we?

As long as it's a genuine question rather than an irrelevant attack, I'm quite patient with non-cyclists, or people unfamiliar with the debate, asking me why I don't wear a helmet - common sense might be cobblers, but it's not going to go away any time soon. I usually just explain that helmets are an irrelevance in terms of safety, that the best thing an individual cyclist can do for her own safety is to use good road positioning, and that the best way we can collectively improve road safety is to reduce and slow down motor vehicles and to make their drivers take responsibility for their actions. They don't always look convinced, but they usually look as if they think it's worth pondering a bit. If, however, someone has deliberately entered the debate and claims to have read the evidence and understood the issues already, I'm afraid they don't have any excuse for falling back on common sense and received wisdom. They ought to do better, and I regard their continued helmet-pushing as a form of collaboration with interests hostile to cyclists. Hence what you call "borderline nastiness" - it isn't nasty, but it is an actual conflict of real-world interests, and not just a difference of opinion.

 

[CopperCyclist]

Come on, someone hurry up and mention Hitler and lets get this over with.

 

[Pedrosanchezo]

As long as it's a genuine question rather than an irrelevant attack, I'm quite patient with non-cyclists, or people unfamiliar with the debate, asking me why I don't wear a helmet - common sense might be cobblers, but it's not going to go away any time soon. I usually just explain that helmets are an irrelevance in terms of safety, that the best thing an individual cyclist can do for her own safety is to use good road positioning, and that the best way we can collectively improve road safety is to reduce and slow down motor vehicles and to make their drivers take responsibility for their actions. They don't always look convinced, but they usually look as if they think it's worth pondering a bit. If, however, someone has deliberately entered the debate and claims to have read the evidence and understood the issues already, I'm afraid they don't have any excuse for falling back on common sense and received wisdom. They ought to do better, and I regard their continued helmet-pushing as a form of collaboration with interests hostile to cyclists. Hence what you call "borderline nastiness" - it isn't nasty, but it is an actual conflict of real-world interests, and not just a difference of opinion.

I think the wether it is nasty or not is reserved for judgement and individual perception.
I get that you think a helmet will not be of benefit to you and i also believe all of your post above RE road safety (positioning etc) is a valid one.

Just the same as you don't like to be asked all the time why you don't wear a helmet i do not like to be asked for my reasoning for wearing one.

Try to understand that for me to not wear a helmet would need concrete proof that it either does more harm than good or is next to useless at protecting my head when cycling. This is my POV though and in no way related to yours.

RE common sense, i am sorry but i must disagree. Our own ability top make decisions based on our own well being is one of the main reasons we are top of the food chain.

Opinions are all we have. Nothing more.

 

[Pedrosanchezo]

Come on, someone hurry up and mention Hitler and lets get this over with.

Interesting fact of the day...........

Hitler was a vegetarian.

 

[Crackle]

A helmet thread! This is what happens when I don't pay attention and click on stuff from friends in my news feed. Let this be a lesson to any one of my friends who follows me in.

Anyway, anecdotally, I've actually fractured my skull falling off a bike. If no one can top that, then what I say goes. Anyone top it, who isn't dead?

 

[theclaud]

Unless of course we really push the boat out and turn to observable facts.

Is this another one of your fancy metropolitan notions, like having beans in a ramekin?

 

[Crackle]

Is this another one of your fancy metropolitan notions, like having beans in a ramekin?

Yes it was your fault. I was aiming for Breakfast in Morrisons.

 

[ufkacbln]

Yes it was your fault. I was aiming for Breakfast in Morrisons.

There can be some very slippy floors in Morrisons, I know of at least two head injuries that have occurred in this way

 

[theclaud]

There can be some very slippy floors in Morrisons, I know of at least two head injuries that have occurred in this way

Best get Crax a Thudguard™ then...

 

[ufkacbln]

A helmet thread! This is what happens when I don't pay attention and click on stuff from friends in my news feed. Let this be a lesson to any one of my friends who follows me in.

Anyway, anecdotally, I've actually fractured my skull falling off a bike. If no one can top that, then what I say goes. Anyone top it, who isn't dead?

I'll meet your skull and raise you a pelvis,, hip, ribs and collarbone......

 

[david k]

Who are "those who are against helmet wearers"?
There are some on this thread that are against compulsion, but that's not the same thing !
Come on, Name and Shame !

But you cannot be both, if its compulsion people are against then why are they posting when compulsion is not under discussion, wearing helmets is.
What continually happens is somebody posts that they think helmets are a benefit, or they like helmets, or they wear them all the time and they then face the wrath of those against. Only to say, 'oh we are not against helmets, we are aginst compulsion' Stop hiding behind it, if you dont like helmets have the courage to say so

 

[ufkacbln]

Tell me will you wear a helmet if it becomes a legality?

It is already a legality... Any dispute involving helmets requires those making the legal decisions to resolve the dispute by applying legal rules that have been declared beforehand, and not to alter the legal situation retrospectively by discretionary departures from established law.

Established law does in these cases does not require a helmet to be worn - simples

These cases have already occurred, and have not really been responsible for changing decisions. Liability was discussed earlier in the thread, and perhaps re-reading this part would be better than placing the same arguments and cases again here.

It is not a legal requirement to wear a helmet whilst cycling. In a round about way you are agreeing with what i am saying but making it appear as though you are right and i am wrong.

I have copied the conversation so we can be clear - I stated clearly that it was not a legal requirement to wear a helmet, and have emphasised that for you. What made you think that at any point I had stated they were a legal requirement?

 

[ufkacbln]

What helmet do you wear and I will provide evidence that here are either doubts or proof about its safety, and even possibly point out how you could improve the head protection.

All part of being informed on the subject

I have two for road purpose. Kask K10 Dieci & the Giro Monza helmet.

I am not interested in doubts about these helmets. I will be interested if you can provide concrete proof that they are of no use though. That is the kind of insight i would not only consider valuable but be thankful for. Good luck......

The highlighted bit says it all really!

Surely if a safety device has limitations then one would be interested?

You are aware that neither passes the toughest helmet test and recognised "Gold Standard" of Snell Certification?

You are also aware of "snag points " and their role in ejecting the helmet during accidents?


Really a bit like sticking your fingers in your ears ans singing "LALALALALA", but than again I really did not expect any better

 

[Pedrosanchezo]

The highlighted bit says it all really!

Surely if a safety device has limitations then one would be interested?

You are aware that neither passes the toughest helmet test and recognised "Gold Standard" of Snell Certification?

You are also aware of "snag points " and their role in ejecting the helmet during accidents?


Really a bit like sticking your fingers in your ears ans singing "LALALALALA", but than again I really did not expect any better

Typical that you would highlight one part of my post an become pedantic.

I say i am not interested in doubts and i am interested in anything concrete you can come up with. So just for a change you take something out of context and spin your web in an attempt to discredit what i say.

I suppose the entire peloton feel the same way as you but are forced to wear helmets that are not safe. Just like my Kask helmet which is also worn by members of team sky. Maybe team Sky don't care about rider safety.

Or it could be that they don't care what they look like, they would just rather protect their heads. I am aware that it is a requirement to wear a helmet in a race before you misquote me there too.

Wiggins and Sutton recently came out claiming helmets had played a part in saving their skin. Though what would they know they only live and breath cycling. You would know better............

 

[Crackle]

Typical that you would highlight one part of my post an become pedantic.

I say i am not interested in doubts and i am interested in anything concrete you can come up with. So just for a change you take something out of context and spin your web in an attempt to discredit what i say.

I suppose the entire peloton feel the same way as you but are forced to wear helmets that are not safe. Just like my Kask helmet which is also worn by members of team sky. Maybe team Sky don't care about rider safety.

Or it could be that they don't care what they look like, they would just rather protect their heads. I am aware that it is a requirement to wear a helmet in a race before you misquote me there too.

Wiggins and Sutton recently came out claiming helmets had played a part in saving their skin. Though what would they know they only live and breath cycling. You would know better............

On the other hand Wouter Weyland was wearing one when he was killed pretty much instantly.

Anecdotes are worthless.