Gaz down in Streatham
- Thread starter BentMikey
- Start date
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Alien8
Senior Moment
- Location
- (A little bit north of) Cambridge
Yes, even more defensive cycling could have avoided what was in the end quite a light-weight collision but I guess it depends how defensive you want to be - stop at every side-road, check, and then proceed?
I guess you need to workout how far the motorist needed to proceed through the turn before they could see down the bus lane.
Anyway, Gaz seems to have taken it on the chin - so I can't see the point in having another handbags at dawn fight.
I guess you need to workout how far the motorist needed to proceed through the turn before they could see down the bus lane.
Anyway, Gaz seems to have taken it on the chin - so I can't see the point in having another handbags at dawn fight.
Aperitif
Meme bar
- Location
- ...I don't have much idea - really.
OK - get well soon Gaz.
Looking at the video, I offer this: (Remember it is me riding, not Gaz
) I'm heading down the bus lane - all good, nice and clear, not too fast. I see a car in front poking it's nose out too far for me to be comfortable holding my line and I veer outward (in my friendly bus lane...going 'fast' enough that I know no-one is going to be overtaking me etc..) - 'all' my concentration is to the left and. Bang! The traffic line to my right was stationary and my junction attention was lacking. It was as much my fault as the driver who 'got the nod', didn't see a huge bus, and thought all was ok. 50/50 I would think to myself and walk away - although I would be dealing with stuff like that a lot slower,( and watching the left hand car's wheels like a hawk) so possibly could have avoided trouble...
That would be my line of thinking if I was in Gaz's position. I'm not good enough to tell people what to do, and I certainly daydream at times. It must be hard to keep seeing errors everywhere, which is why, sometimes, we avoid spotting our own.
Speedy recovery Gaz - and everyone be careful - please.
Oh - and I don't think Lee is being untoward in his comments either. IMO he is an honest rider who contributes knowledge and experience (when he's not stirring
) - like so many on this forum. So, be careful.
Looking at the video, I offer this: (Remember it is me riding, not Gaz
) I'm heading down the bus lane - all good, nice and clear, not too fast. I see a car in front poking it's nose out too far for me to be comfortable holding my line and I veer outward (in my friendly bus lane...going 'fast' enough that I know no-one is going to be overtaking me etc..) - 'all' my concentration is to the left and. Bang! The traffic line to my right was stationary and my junction attention was lacking. It was as much my fault as the driver who 'got the nod', didn't see a huge bus, and thought all was ok. 50/50 I would think to myself and walk away - although I would be dealing with stuff like that a lot slower,( and watching the left hand car's wheels like a hawk) so possibly could have avoided trouble...That would be my line of thinking if I was in Gaz's position. I'm not good enough to tell people what to do, and I certainly daydream at times. It must be hard to keep seeing errors everywhere, which is why, sometimes, we avoid spotting our own.
Speedy recovery Gaz - and everyone be careful - please.
Oh - and I don't think Lee is being untoward in his comments either. IMO he is an honest rider who contributes knowledge and experience (when he's not stirring
) - like so many on this forum. So, be careful. BentMikey
Rider of Seolferwulf
- Location
- South London
That's a good post wrt the attention to the car on the left in the minor road, Aperitif.
Can't agree on the 50/50 though - that would only be the case if there had been a single lane of standing traffic that Gaz was filtering along. The presence of a bike or bus lane completely changes that, and places all the onus on the turning driver to check that both lanes are clear. He didn't check, and just accelerated through the gap despite not being able to see down the nearside lane.
Can't agree on the 50/50 though - that would only be the case if there had been a single lane of standing traffic that Gaz was filtering along. The presence of a bike or bus lane completely changes that, and places all the onus on the turning driver to check that both lanes are clear. He didn't check, and just accelerated through the gap despite not being able to see down the nearside lane.
Spinney
Bimbleur extraordinaire
- Location
- Back up north
Agree - Gaz was not filtering.
And the whole point of bus lanes is that things (buses, taxis, bicycles) will be moving along them when other lanes of traffic are stationary. So the car turning right should have been even more careful than just turning right through a line of stationary traffic.
Hindsight - It turns average drivers/cyclists into perfect drivers/cyclists.
There is absolutely no doubt that had Gaz being cycling slower, had he been more cautious, had he taken a different route, had he realised 5 minutes into his ride that he had no shorts on and so hurried home and hid behind his sofa all day through embarrassment, etc that this incident would not have happened. It is sooooo easy for us to look at video footage and say, I would have done this, I would have done that. the truth is, you wouldn't. Because if there is one thing I have learned through collecting and publishing helmet camera footage, is that you aren't anywhere near as good as you think you are.
When it comes to fault in this incident, it is quite clear, 100% driver as the driver did not ensure that it was safe to cross the lane. As someone else has pointed out, who would have been at fault had Gaz been a bus? Does size change the burden of fault?
Glad you're ok Gaz!
There is absolutely no doubt that had Gaz being cycling slower, had he been more cautious, had he taken a different route, had he realised 5 minutes into his ride that he had no shorts on and so hurried home and hid behind his sofa all day through embarrassment, etc that this incident would not have happened. It is sooooo easy for us to look at video footage and say, I would have done this, I would have done that. the truth is, you wouldn't. Because if there is one thing I have learned through collecting and publishing helmet camera footage, is that you aren't anywhere near as good as you think you are.
When it comes to fault in this incident, it is quite clear, 100% driver as the driver did not ensure that it was safe to cross the lane. As someone else has pointed out, who would have been at fault had Gaz been a bus? Does size change the burden of fault?
Glad you're ok Gaz!
Origamist
Legendary Member
Can`t agree that this is 50/50 .
Trouble is we get so good at avoiding these muppets 999 times out of 1000 that when we don`t we end up blaming ourselves.
Victim blaming and it`s us victims doing it ... remarkable
Indeed: the 50/50 liability position is bollocks, frankly. People are confusing defensive cycling and traffic cues, with insurance liability.
Gaz was established in the bus lane and proceeding forward, the driver has a statutory duty of care to ensure that it was safe to change his/her position in the road before actually moving.
Not really, I'm illustrating a valid point. by caricature.
On my oil tanker video I had people suggest that all cyclists should stop before entering roundabouts that I should always slow down to an almost standstill on roundabouts, that I should cycle slowly around the edge of roundabouts, all of which might well of prevented my incident. Yet, I can assure you the tanker driver was 100% at fault.
The same applies here.
SavageHoutkop
Veteran
- Location
- South Manchester-ish
Looking at the footage, I'm not sure that slowing down would have helped. That car was obscured from view until it was too late, and I think it would have been too late at any speed. I probably cycle a lot slower than Gaz does and that car would have hit me if I'd been in that lane.
I would probably have slowed anyway in anticipation of the white van with its indicator on deciding to take a run for it in the bus lane (perhaps they behave a bit better in London with that type of thing, but in Manchester I'd expect it); but that wouldn't have avoided the collision.
Re apportioning blame to Gaz, I just don't see it. As others have said, what if he was a bus?
addictfreak
Guru
- Location
- Boldon, Tyne and Wear
First off, glad to hear your ok Gaz. Hows the bike?
That is almost a carbon copy of my mates accident about 6 weeks ago. Unfortunately he is still off work and having big problems with a shoulder injury.
The driver in his case was charged with driving without due care.
That is almost a carbon copy of my mates accident about 6 weeks ago. Unfortunately he is still off work and having big problems with a shoulder injury.
The driver in his case was charged with driving without due care.
Sh4rkyBloke
Jaffa Cake monster
- Location
- Manchester, UK
Bl**dy car drivers!!
Glad to hear you're okay Gaz. Should have no problems with a claim as the driver is, as I'm sure you're aware, 100% at fault for crossing a lane of traffic (not just a pithy cycle lane attached to the side of the road, a whole f*cking bus lane!!!!) without ensuring it was safe to do so.
Goes to show how quickly these things happen... be careful out there everyone!
Glad to hear you're okay Gaz. Should have no problems with a claim as the driver is, as I'm sure you're aware, 100% at fault for crossing a lane of traffic (not just a pithy cycle lane attached to the side of the road, a whole f*cking bus lane!!!!) without ensuring it was safe to do so.
Goes to show how quickly these things happen... be careful out there everyone!
[QUOTE 1270039"]
Not being funny but I am though, straight away I saw the car with it's LHS indicator and the car up ahead looking to turn right - but that's just me.
Maybe it's six years of HGV driving that have perfected what was already extremely good riding with respect to riding defensively.
[/quote]
Ah, you're one of the 80% who think they are above average...
Not being funny but I am though, straight away I saw the car with it's LHS indicator and the car up ahead looking to turn right - but that's just me.
Maybe it's six years of HGV driving that have perfected what was already extremely good riding with respect to riding defensively.
[/quote]
Ah, you're one of the 80% who think they are above average...
Alien8
Senior Moment
- Location
- (A little bit north of) Cambridge
What if it were a bus? What's that got to do with anything?
