Fuel duty cut will cost £500,000,000

[martint235]

Is there any chance we can have a show of hands for the state workers contributing to thsi thread - call it a declaration of interest so we can understand the motive for bias ?

I'll go first. I don't work for the state, and I am keen to see that the tax pauers who do contribute to the economy get VFM.

I do work for the state, and I am keen to see that the tax payers who do contribute to the economy get VFM. Mainly because I am a taxpayer who contributes to the economy.

 

[martint235]

Tattooed on the forehead would save the diesel for the ambulance as well.

I like your thinking. Am also willing to do the tattooing (on a state subsidy naturally!)

 

[Linford]

So what you actually want is a race to the bottom? You don't feel you're getting value for money from your local nurse because she can afford a car and holidays? Or you don't value the work she does?

A race to the bottom, no of course not, but there has to be some parity between her wages and those in other industries where a similar amount of training is required. I thought for a minute that people go into Nursing because they want to care for people. That used to be the reason back in the day....

 

[martint235]

A race to the bottom, no of course not, but there has to be some parity between her wages and those in other industries where a similar amount of training is required. I thought for a minute that people go into Nursing because they want to care for people. That used to be the reason back in the day....

So it's all about the training involved, not the value of the job performed? And you propose paying people less in proportion to their job satisfaction?

Do you actually believe the stuff you write?

 

[Linford]

I do work for the state, and I am keen to see that the tax payers who do contribute to the economy get VFM. Mainly because I am a taxpayer who contributes to the economy.

It could be argued that what you actually do is take the taxes as a wage off the productive ones in the economy, and then get some of that taxed some more. The rest has to be produced through quantitive easing (printing money) to make up the shortfall...

 

[Linford]

It's OK Linf we can all understand the motivation for your bias already.

How about yourself Adrian ?

 

[martint235]

It could be argued that what you actually do is take the taxes as a wage off the productive ones in the economy, and then get some of that taxed some more. The rest has to be produced through quantitive easing (printing money) to make up the shortfall...

It could and I could argue that in between taking the taxes and then being taxed, I perform a valuable service to the country that couldn't be entrusted to a private company. What do you do that we couldn't happily live without?

 

[Linford]

So it's all about the training involved, not the value of the job performed? And you propose paying people less in proportion to their job satisfaction?

Do you actually believe the stuff you write?

What I propose is that some parity is restored between what is going on in the economy, and what people who work for the state receive in wages and benefits.

This is why Greece is in the cart. Ours will follow that path if the disparity is not addressed.

the state sector here is overbloated because it is too generous in its own pay awardfs and the country can't afford the bills. It isn't rocket science !

 

[martint235]

What I propose is that some parity is restored between what is going on in the economy, and what people who work for the state receive in wages and benefits.

This is why Greece is in the cart. Ours will follow that path if the disparity is not addressed.

the state sector here is overbloated because it is too generous in its own pay awardfs and the country can't afford the bills. It isn't rocket science !

What pay awards? Seriously if you're looking for someone in the state sector to take a kicking start looking at the MPs, the rest of us are taking pay cuts.

Greece is in trouble because it didn't collect it's tax revenue efficiently largely by undervaluing the work of its public sector. The private sector used the opportunity to shaft the country.

 

[Linford]

It could and I could argue that in between taking the taxes and then being taxed, I perform a valuable service to the country that couldn't be entrusted to a private company. What do you do that we couldn't happily live without?

There are plenty of contractors working in sensitive roles for the government and who run their affairs as limited companies which bill for their services. I struggle to imagine what you might do which can't be farmed out to a contractor.

 

[Linford]

Routinely a voice of reason me, AIS said so.

You are talking in riddles. A yes or no would be good enough.

 

[martint235]

There are plenty of contractors working in sensitive roles for the government and who run their affairs as limited companies which bill for their services. I struggle to imagine what you might do which can't be farmed out to a contractor.

Come on make up your mind. On the one hand you want to cut the waste in the public sector and then you tell me I should become a contractor and charge the taxpayer double what I currently receive (and yes the market rate for a contractor to do what I do is double what I get).

 

[Linford]

Come on make up your mind. On the one hand you want to cut the waste in the public sector and then you tell me I should become a contractor and charge the taxpayer double what I currently receive (and yes the market rate for a contractor to do what I do is double what I get).

My mate only gets what he gets because the state are prepared to pay him that. Many of the contractors in the pivate sector doing what he does are now overpriced and out of work. If you are on £50k PA and work for the state, that is substantially more than the private sector is paying as an average wage. State paid wages just inflate the economy and make it all uncompetitive. House prices in part rose through both unregulated lending, and an aweful lot of people in the public sector getting big pay awards back in the noughties thanks to Blairs meddling.

 

[oldroadman]

What pay awards? Seriously if you're looking for someone in the state sector to take a kicking start looking at the MPs, the rest of us are taking pay cuts.

Greece is in trouble because it didn't collect it's tax revenue efficiently largely by undervaluing the work of its public sector. The private sector used the opportunity to shaft the country.[/quote]
And not because they had/have a retiring age in the 50's and can't sustain pensions, and that tax evasion is an even bigger national sport than in Italy (which is difficult to imagine)? Should never have been in the Euro, and it's just when rather than if they get slung out. Most German taxpayers now pay for a holiday home - it's called Greece....

 

[Linford]

In the 7 years to June 2013 my overall pay rise will be 6.04%. That is the gross pay rise and does not account for the increase in pension contribution. It represents a reduction of 16% compared to RPI.
Now I fully appreciate that there are winners and loosers across the board and that some have taken pay cuts or lost their jobs completely. Anyone else want to compare notes?

Don't bitch about your pnsion contributions unless you are happy to divulge the ratio of employer contribution to yours into the pot. On top of this, your contributions are paying for the current retiree's. There is no such thing as a ' pension pot', just a promise to pay out Blah, Blah, Blah when you take your early retirement option.