Froome and Wiggins TUEs

[mjr]

This would include the riders/teams that most of the discussions on this section of the forum focus on ie World Tour and Pro Conti level men. (it also includes other groups). Not sure how NN team works as presumably they would need a permanent TUE, rather than one for an isolated or occasional issue.

https://cyclespeak.com/2017/04/19/team-novo-nordisk-race-ready/ says "all the riders on Team Novo Nordisk require a long-term Therapeutic Use Exemption" so I guess most would only show up in the UCI issuing figure in their first year of riding at TNN's Pro Conti level or higher.

Does anyone know how insulin can be used as a PED (it's anabolic but I'm not great at understanding that type of drug) and whether that's actually possible to do without causing serious problems for an athlete with diabetes? Most diabetics I've seen seem to have to be fairly diligent to keep their levels within a broad range, but they're using manual pin-prick testers and pens, rather than the pumps some athletes have.

 

[Siclo]

Two ways to use as PED, in combination with steroids to help prevent the new muscle mass being broken down, or use in combination with glucose to enter a hyperinsulinaemic state, essentially massively loading muscles with glycogen. Extremely dangerous in non-diabetics, no idea on the effects on diabetics but I would imagine it's even more hazardous.

 

[mjr]

Or would the all pals together finishing 14th do?

IMO yes, as long as they did it entertainingly instead of doing not much and then quitting, as the senior men seem to at several world championships.

Also, is it necessary to be nasty to win? At least one interviewee on Sunday's doc didn't think so: "People think that this is what it takes to win, that you've got to have this sort of brutal atmosphere to be able to win, and it's just the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard." -- six-time Paralympic gold medallist Darren Kenny.

 

[Slick]

IMO yes, as long as they did it entertainingly instead of doing not much and then quitting, as the senior men seem to at several world championships.

Also, is it necessary to be nasty to win? At least one interviewee on Sunday's doc didn't think so: "People think that this is what it takes to win, that you've got to have this sort of brutal atmosphere to be able to win, and it's just the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard." -- six-time Paralympic gold medallist Darren Kenny.

Fair enough, different opinions like that make the world go round. I have thought about it over the past couple of days, and I haven't changed my mind, I still reckon nice guys finish second or even 14th.

 

[resal]

............................How far does the “if one did it, they all did it” go. Are you including Cooke, Hoy, Kenny(s), Pooley etc?...............

Hoy was quick to react and support Sutton
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/cycling/2016/04/28/shane-sutton-receives-support-from-chris-hoy/

"Laura Trott supported Shane Sutton though refused to comment on the allegations"
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices...-with-shane-suttons-resignation-a7005661.html

Although in the case of Cooke you get the impression that if BC had discovered indetectable go faster juice they'd have poured it down the drain rather than give it to her, given their relationship with her.

Cooke knew Sutton from Welsh Cycling in the 1990's.

The whole Varnish story was dead and buried, it was weeks old and Sutton had put out his counter "she's a sore loser, as well, as not being any good" in the cycling friendly press.

Then the two stories below kicked in on the same day and suddenly holy hell broke loose. This was because the story suddenly was no longer a "cycling story" to be covered by the cosy group of journalists, like Fotheringham and Moore who hung around the doors of the Sky bus pleading for interviews, but now it was mainstream and a different set of journalists took an interst in the story; journalists who did not think the sun shon out of the backsides of Braislford, Sutton and the gang but could see things without bias.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2016/apr/25/nicole-cooke-cycling-sexism-jess-varnish-shane-sutton
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/cycling/...t--there-is-sexism-at-the-top-of-british-cyc/

I will finish with a quote from Sir Dave Brailsford, which I fully agree with

“If you’re a cheat, you’re a cheat, you’re not half a cheat. You wouldn’t say, ‘I’ll cheat here but I’m not going to cheat over there; I’ll cheat on a Monday but not on a Tuesday’.'”

 

[tug benson]

He'll encounter my marginal boot up his arse

 

[cyberknight]

That all seems very reasonable to me!

It goes way beyond BC and Sky. All teams will probably follow the same practices.
(It is a sport wide problem eg. Football doesn’t seem to have a problem injecting players full of cortisone)

(Sorry for the long quote reply - it’s a bit difficult doing the edit stuff on a mobile)

have said to people at work who ask about sky pretty much the same , sky and pretty much every team are pushing the legal envelope as far as they are allowed , its just peoples perception of riding clean means they think the riders are still just using bread and water to get around .
Do i defend it , no but im not blind to the reality that is professional sport where sponsors and competitors need results so every edge is sought to be at the top of the game.
Interesting point about kaizen , its like my workplace where everything is analyzed to gain a second here or there in production, it was like being at work watching it .

 

[resal]

Hoy was quick to react and support Sutton
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/cycling/2016/04/28/shane-sutton-receives-support-from-chris-hoy/

"Laura Trott supported Shane Sutton though refused to comment on the allegations"
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices...-with-shane-suttons-resignation-a7005661.html



Cooke knew Sutton from Welsh Cycling in the 1990's.

The whole Varnish story was dead and buried, it was weeks old and Sutton had put out his counter "she's a sore loser, as well, as not being any good" in the cycling friendly press.

Then the two stories below kicked in on the same day and suddenly holy hell broke loose. This was because the story suddenly was no longer a "cycling story" to be covered by the cosy group of journalists, like Fotheringham and Moore who hung around the doors of the Sky bus pleading for interviews, but now it was mainstream and a different set of journalists took an interst in the story; journalists who did not think the sun shon out of the backsides of Braislford, Sutton and the gang but could see things without bias.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2016/apr/25/nicole-cooke-cycling-sexism-jess-varnish-shane-sutton
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/cycling/...t--there-is-sexism-at-the-top-of-british-cyc/

I will finish with a quote from Sir Dave Brailsford, which I fully agree with

“If you’re a cheat, you’re a cheat, you’re not half a cheat. You wouldn’t say, ‘I’ll cheat here but I’m not going to cheat over there; I’ll cheat on a Monday but not on a Tuesday’.'”

And of course, apart from the riders there was the strongest support from:

Boardman "Shane Sutton forced out of British Cycling by "lynch mob" https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2...t-of-british-cycling-lynch-mob-chris-boardman

Cookson " I have a great respect for him. ........... Shane is a man whom I have a great amount of respect for". "Perhaps a number of people didn't find his approach agreeable, but many people did, and the proof of the pudding is in the number of medals he won".
https://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/2017/01/19/cycling-boss-cookson-praises-shane-sutton

And then the Times stated that "The Times understands that senior figures in the women’s track team have offered their support to Shane" https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/sport/support-for-sutton-over-sexism-claim-k5gbktts7

One presumes that these "senior figures" are the ones Squadron Leader and dentist Wendy Houvenaghel described as "juvenile" . But I suppose they gain the sobriquet "senior" because Shane picked them for the TP squad over the foursome that went the quickest - the one with Wendy Houvenaghel in http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/olympics/19147279 . Question - do you cross the National Coach or do you just suck it up ?

I suppose Shane knew his back was covered with an awesome pr and spin machine - just look at the way the cycling journos filled their stories with the pap from Manchester to trash Houvenaghel, - so what the hell - he could do nearly what he wanted.

Well I suppose for that we need to look at who was watching him. How "on top of their game" were Drake, Gilbert and that fool Howden when they appeared in front of the nation. That select committee meeting with Howden and Gilbert doing a Laurel and Hardy impersonation was outstanding. And before that Cookson whose "golden touch" made him think he was home and dry in the recent UCI election., before he lost by a landslide.

 

[hoopdriver]

Unproven (yet with heavy, heavy suspicion) is hardly a finding of innocence or a ringing endorsement of the man's character

In a strictly legal sense Al Capone was an otherwise upright citizen who neglected to pay his taxes, nothing more.

 

[User482]

Abnormal drugs test result for Froome:

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2017/dec/13/chris-froome-team-sky-reputation-abnormal-drug-test

 

[hoopdriver]

Doesn’t look good. I’ll be interested to hear more details. I sense there is more to this, and maybe not quite so bad for Froome.

 

[Tin Pot]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cycling/42335916

Froome! No!

 

[Adam4868]

Hope not,I had a lot of faith in him !

 

[400bhp]

Procedural I think.

 

[Bollo]

Procedural I think.

Twice the allowed limit? I think that’s going to take some expensive lawyering to be deemed ‘procedural’.