FNRttC Friday Night Ride to the Coast - Brighton 14th October 2011

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frank9755

Cyclist
Location
West London
1534181 said:
I thought you had said it was 78 or 80". I would never have suggested that it was too big a gear had I known it was 71".

M-Y said it was 80" using his remote-gear-tooth-counter-and-internal-gear-inch-calculator special powers. Having not set that gear up, and it being the middle of the night, I couldn't remember what it was. I did know it wasn't the other side of the hub as that is 90" that I set up for flat time trials.


I am sure you, as an experienced fixed rider, are made of sterner stuff, but it was a bit of a grind for a novice like me to keep it turning up Ditchling so I think I'll get on just fine with 68"
 

frank9755

Cyclist
Location
West London
I did appoint somebody for that crossroads. I'll have a word.

Wayfinding is another issue entirely, and it'll get another sheet. I rely time and time again on the same people, like Chris By, who knows the score, does a stint and then rushes to the front again - and time and time again I have to look beyond the crowd of youngish men immediately behind me who don't fill me with confidence . Then again, the Wayfinders have to have complete confidence in the TECs, who must shout 'All-Up'. And, as McW found out in Wales that doesn't always happen.

We don't have a crisis. We've not lost anybody, but with rides of 90+ the chances of doing so increase if we don't know what we're doing. As Stu says, getting it right is really about small gains.

This is one of those things where people are doing the utmost to be helpful to others, so a bit of guidance should work wonders.


These are my suggestions from my experience of it.

TECs. Having waymarked a fair bit I would say that I get a clear and confident 'All up' not more than 50% of the time. I think it is often that the TECs are people I know well and they give me a nod or a wave or something and think it will be obvious that it is the back of the ride. But my eyesight at night isn't great and there could be someone else further behind. I can safely say that never on any of the junctions I've marked did I think 'That was a bit loud' when the 'all up' was given.

Waymarkers
Going back to night vision, I find it a bit hard to see waymarkers sometimes. And sometimes I see someone marking a junction but it's not clear which way to go. Things that help are:
- movement - makes it much easier to spot someone
- standing in the beam of your own light
- standing where the beam of oncoming riders' lights will be
- pointing where people are supposed to go (NB some cycle clothing like, say, a reflective gilet combined with black armwarmers makes it very hard to see where the person is pointing. So being a bit lit up is very helpful
- it's great when people say if the road is clear.

Again, I've never thought 'that waymarker is moving around way too much and pointing far too explicitly which way I am supposed to be going'

As a waymarker, it is nice when you get the odd 'thank-you', nod or wave. It's also nice when someone gives you an indication (as a couple did on Friday) as to how far behind the back is.


On big rides, how about having waymarkers in pairs? If it's a long wait it can be nice to have someone to talk to / race back to the front with.
 

srw

It's a bit more complicated than that...
Things that help are:

Making it obvious that you're waymarking, rather than just getting out of everyone's way and enjoying a quick snog - especially when the alternative route is signposted "Ditchling".

More seriously, having needed the services of waymarkers in the dark in the sticks for the first time, the junction a mile or so after the Edifice where you turn right off the main road is one where, if I hadn't been consciously looking out for a waymark, I might have gone wrong. (And, to be honest, I only remembered there was a right turn because turning the tandem round in the wrong narrow lane on July's ride was such a faff.) A white light on the left of the road, as well as the bike on the right, would have signalled "there's something odd here".
 
U

User482

Guest
Speaking as an occasional waymaker - I point my front light in the direction the riders should be heading. I can't recall ever having someone go the wrong way...

I would concur with Frank about the need for a clear "All Up" from the TECs. And also about waymarking in pairs - at large junctions it's sometimes useful to have two people anyway.
 

TimO

Guru
Location
London
Whilst it's very easy to say that we need Waymarkers in pairs, and half a dozen TECs and so forth, I think that often Simon has to hunt around a bit to find people to do these roles (as he mentioned briefly earlier in the thread), and understandably doesn't like to ask the same people repeatedly.

It does vary from ride to ride, but some rides can be particularly thin on people who are well known to Simon, which can make it difficult. I seem to recall that the Genteel Ride tends to suffer from this, because the Dun Run is the next day, and most people balk at doing two night rides in quick succession (I know I do!), and quite a lot of the more confident regulars who will likely make up a fair chunk of the TECs and waymarkers. I'm sure other rides probably suffer a similar problem from time to time, and indeed this ride was probably a bit thinner than usual, since I can think of a handful of the more regular attendees who weren't present.

A few other thoughts come to mind:

(i) Sometimes the TECs (and accompanied "back of ride" riders) will come across a fairy visitation or other mechanical, part way through being dealt with, often by one of the other regulars who isn't actually acting as a TEC (I've done this myself a few times). There tends to be the assumption then, that they've already called through to Simon that they're dealing with a problem, but that may well not be the case.

(ii) Possibly we need to make sure that someone at the back (ie one of the TECs) is clearly the "official" All-Upper (head TEC?), so there's no ambiguity about who says it, and whose responsibility it is.

(iii) I normally carry a moderate amount of tools and spares on group rides. It may be useful if we know what is being carried, or possibly let Simon knows, so if someone has need of a certain class of tool or spare, then we (or Simon) knows to call for it, or send someone back if necessary.

I know I carry more kit than most (!), and even when I'm cycling Red, aside from the predictable inner tubes, tyre levers and pump I'll also carry: CO[sub]2[/sub] cartridges and inflater, a multi-tool, a Leatherman, a couple of the more common full length Allen keys, a brake cable, a gear cable, an emergency Kevlar spoke, a boot, a spare set of lights (and batteries to suit), some AA batteries, a puncture repair kit (for when you run out of tyres or have an unusual tyre size to deal with), a few random spare nuts and bolts, a selection of cable ties, a Spokey, and a VAR lever for those tyres which really don't want to go back on.

When I've got a pannier, I'll normally also carry a complete set of Allen keys, a few adjustable spanners, some cone spanners, a small pot of oil, some disposable gloves, hand cleaner, more inner tubes, and a spare tyre (700×25 or ×28 as a compromise size to fit most rims).

On occasions people have had problems that some of that could have solved, but didn't know that I had the kit, and I wasn't TECing, so I wasn't at the back in a position to know that I could have helped.
 

mmmmartin

Random geezer
some cycle clothing like, say, a reflective gilet combined with black armwarmers makes it very hard to see where the person is pointing.

Again, I've never thought 'that waymarker is moving around way too much and pointing far too explicitly which way I am supposed to be going'

As a waymarker, it is nice when you get the odd 'thank-you', nod or wave.

On big rides, how about having waymarkers in pairs?
Agree with all that. I have never ever thought; "That waymarking person is too brightly lit or too reflective."
 

theclaud

Openly Marxist
Location
Swansea
I have somewhat mixed feelings on the changes to the run towards Ditchling. On the one hand, it was indeed prettier. But on the other hand, the turn out of the car park, unlike that from the greenhouses, had the unfortunate drawback of leading right into the first kick up


There is a way of doing most of Streat Lane, and still ending up at the greenhouses. It does involve a little bit of off-piste though. I came back that way on Saturday morning (on bike with 700 x 23s) and I reckon it's perfectly doable, if done slowly. And for those who want to walk, it's only about 300 yards. Turn right at Streat Church onto a bridlepath. Lumpy bumpy and then downhill for a bit, then onto a full on tarmac road.

Forget the greenhouses. I thought the new route was fab, and the Hatlers' new coffee-stop perfect. A run-up is neither here nor there with that kind of hill, so a shot of caffeine and straight in is exactly the way to do it. The soul-destroying run-up has always been much worse than the actual climb. As it happens I had a tougher climb than usual, because I was carrying too much clobber and couldn't clip my right foot in because of gravelly interference, but I won't make that combination of mistakes again. The coffee was great (Thank You!) and there were a few flasks of nice things being passed around for extra fortification.
 

theclaud

Openly Marxist
Location
Swansea
Agree with all that. I have never ever thought; "That waymarking person is too brightly lit or too reflective."

Gawd help us - compulsory hi-viz bras all round!

Whilst it can't hurt to be more visible, and the annual september jucntion decorations are a joy, standing somewhere sensible and paying attention to the approaching riders is really all that is needed. The more understated waymarkers just need to be prepared to throw in a bit of shouting if necessary...
 
U

User482

Guest
I thought there was a certain grandeur to the Hatler variation (and Miss R will be having one of those Islabikes!) - it reminded me of the TdF grimpeurs preparing with an espresso or two...not that my climbing prowess would remind anyone of a grimpeur.

Still, at least I wasn't as hampered by incorrect gear ratios as some...
 

srw

It's a bit more complicated than that...
Still, at least I wasn't as hampered by incorrect gear ratios as some...
User482, you're wrong about gears.*

And I did think your delightful carradice looked a bit unhappy with that lump of gel-covered plastic it was attached to.



*Though at least you understand what you're talking about. In answer to whoever asked me at the edifice - I have a road cassette (Ultegra). It's just well-spaced, to give me a low enough gear so that I can crawl up the odd hill.
 
U

User482

Guest
User482, you're wrong about gears.*

And I did think your delightful carradice looked a bit unhappy with that lump of gel-covered plastic it was attached to.



*Though at least you understand what you're talking about. In answer to whoever asked me at the edifice - I have a road cassette (Ultegra). It's just well-spaced, to give me a low enough gear so that I can crawl up the odd hill.

It seems that the pain inflicted by your overweight, overpriced 19th-century weapon of torture has inhibited your ability to recognise that the Flite Titanium is the saddle of choice for the discerning road cyclist.

*Sadly, I looked up gear ratio tables to see if the gap between chainring sizes on my compact chainset really is as large as it feels. The answer is "yes".
 

TimO

Guru
Location
London
A comment made elsewhere about Friday's ride, made me wonder if there is some potential value in generating some laminated sheets to provide the easiest escape routes along the more common Brighton/Southend/Whitstable rides?

It would really just need to be a broad overview giving the shortest route to stations such as East Croydon, Gatwick etc, which are either open throughout the night, or open fairly early for later parts of the ride. We could probably fit all or most of the necessary routes onto one or two double sided A5 sheets that could be easily carried, and replaced when necessary.

They'd be useful to give to people who are suffering from being more knackered or exhausted than they expected to be, or had mechanicals that required getting to a bail out point asap, but hadn't quite got to the point of total failure yet (eg Davy's pringled front wheel in January).

Thoughts, suggestions ?
 
OP
OP
dellzeqq

dellzeqq

pre-talced and mighty
Location
SW2
the 'All-Up' thing has got less reliable this year, although, as far as I know, we've only left two Wayfinders (Stu on the genteel ride and Andrew on the South Wales ride, the latter causing a bit of bother because I had to go back about four miles to meet him). Ideally it needs someone who is a bit of an extrovert, or just a teensy-weensy bit bossy ('note - I make no admissions'). What's happened is that I've failed to impress on a particular individual that it is their job, having assumed that because such-and-such did it so heartily once that he or she would do it again. I'm going to sort that.

As far as I know we've not had people plough past Wayfinders this year - I'm struggling to recall a recent incident other than Marilyn's (and others) inspired deviation south of Dorking last year. I do admire a Wayfinder who sees an opportunity for showmanship though. Signs such as David B's inspired 'Dave's Junction' on the Martlets ride aren't practical (I think) but a bit of a Busby Berkeley routine wouldn't go amiss. Perhaps we should try costumes... http://www.youtube.c...player_embedded

All in all we're just a little bit too English. Perhaps the TECs need to watch something like this before the off...
View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cUPWb-1Nt8Y&feature=related



View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8M_7FnZ4cB8
the only song entitled 'All-Up' is, sadly, an instrumental, but there's something about the shades that reminds me of somebody.........
 
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