Frame Suggestions Dirt Cheap?

[MacB]

I'd like to increase the versatility of my run around bike but, as it's the one that gets left locked up in public, I don't want to spend much on the frame. I've been having a nose around and what I really want is a hybrid/29er style frame but they only seem to be sold as a complete bike or as very expensive frame only options. This is what I'm looking for:-

alu or steel but forks would be steel
disc brake mounts but v/canti bosses as well
700c with clearance for up to 50mm/2" knobbly tyres with mudguards
rear rack mounts
mudguard mounts
vertical dropouts
no suspension

Basically replacing the Dawes frame I have with one that could run bigger tyres(I'm limited to about 700x32 at present) and able to cope with a bit more offroad. New isn't important and frame only is fine as I can source forks seperately. I've looked at some of the bikes from Decathlon, EBC, etc around the £300 price point but they don't offer the frames on their own, and weight doesn't matter either.

I had a scan through e-bay but couldn't really see anything, any suggestions or if anyone has an old frame kicking around, I'd need large or XL.

 

[MacB]

Had a further scan last night and a frame that seems to tick the boxes would be the Specialized Crosstrail but I'm not so sure about the front suspension forks. Or there's the Kona Unit 2-9, allegedly available as frame only, but that only seems to have disc mounts not canti as well and doesn't have rack points.

If I found a frame like the Crosstrail could I bung on rigid forks like the Kona has and would they have to be suspension corrected(whatever that is)?

 

[RecordAceFromNew]

According to Spesh's spec stock forks can be these with 75mm travel and 493mm long axle to crown, and, in the best tradition of SR Suntour, no offset/rake is given so everybody has to guess - let us assume it is 4cm (would be surprised if off by more than 0.5cm).

Since typical sag for 75mm forks would be about 15mm, you need to look for a pair of rigid forks a little shorter than 480mm to include travel consideration, so in terms of spec something like this (though must confess I have never come across them) is a possibility. For the sake of discussion you can see they are 465mm long from the "Fork Selector" link, which should give a trail of about 70mm, and saving a whooping 1.6kgs.

On the other hand, a pair of 440mm rigid forks with the same offset will deliver a trail of 63mm, closer to typical road bike figures, and steering will be livelier.

 

[scook94]

Exactly how much "off-road" do you have on the way to the pub?

 

[RecordAceFromNew]

Exactly how much "off-road" do you have on the way to the pub?

The question, is how much on the way back...

 

[MacB]

Exactly how much "off-road" do you have on the way to the pub?

It's on the way back I'm worried about

I was kind of set bikewise but my neighbour has taken up MTBing and keeps asking me if I want to join him in the evenings. Nothing serious or dramatic he picked himself up a bike around the £400 mark, I can't remember which one off hand, but I'm sure it was a Trek or Spesh. I also have plans to upgrade the Vaya to an Alfine 11/SON dynamo wheelset which will leave me with an I-9/Alfine dynamo wheelset spare, the former disc only and the latter disc or rim brake. But timing and affordability play a part as well so my first idea was:-

grab a frame that can take the non disc wheelset from the Dawes, plus rack and guards when needed, and transfer over to make a 3 speed MTB/general bike with more offroad potential and rim brakes. Then when I can afford the Vaya upgrade put the old Vaya wheelset onto the frame to make a 9 speed MTB with disc brakes. Hence why I felt I needed disc and canti mounts on the frame.

But, I've been crunching the numbers and I'd be better off selling the Dawes as a complete bike and putting the money towards a complete bike that can do the same duties as the Dawes but more in the way of offroad. Plus you can't get the Crosstrail as a frame only and you can get the basic model at £400 with rim brakes or £500 with disc.

That all seems clear to me but now I realise I know bugger all about MTBing and what bikes can handle what type of riding. The Crosstrail seems spot on for clearances and frame features but I don't know if I'd be buying something that was no more capable of offroad than a cross bike. I don't expect to get anything that can handle jumps or anything but certainly something that could cope with pretty rugged trails.

So what think people re the Crosstrail Disc as a complete bike and how fit for my purposes? if I buy one should I just use up the parts it comes with or should I aim to coincide this with the Vaya upgrade and move better parts onto the Crosstrail frame, and just sell the new bits that I don't want? to be honest I'm leaning towards the idea of wearing out what comes with and then doing the swap/upgrade.

My final concern is that I would be creating a far more 'nickable' bike and thus losing a mainstay of the Dawes, its sheer ugliness

 

[P.H]

My final concern is that I would be creating a far more 'nickable' bike and thus losing a mainstay of the Dawes, its sheer ugliness

That was my first thought... well actually it was my second, the first being that you have two great new bikes, save getting the third till you're a little bored with them. I hope you don't take that the wrong way, just I think you need to ask yourself if you're a cyclist or a bike builder. A few thousand miles on what you have might be a better guide to what to get next than anything anyone can post here. Go MTBing on the Vaya, it looks up to all but the most technical, certainly that's the way Salsa are selling it.


Just a thought...

 

[Zoiders]

If you shop around you might find a Diamondback 29er - Diamondback helpfully don't include them on the UK webpage but there are some good options under £500, they may have discontinued it now but there was a single speed version called the "Mojito" with rigid forks and discs that various shops have been knocking out on clearance as last years model.

 

[Alembicbassman]

The GT Transeo Disc is a nice bike

I've seen pretty new ones go on ebay for £180

700c wheels, hydro or cable discs, Suntour NEX 75mm forks

I think the V brakes ones have disc mounts.

£180 for a whole bike, cheaper than a self build.

 

[MacB]

That was my first thought... well actually it was my second, the first being that you have two great new bikes, save getting the third till you're a little bored with them. I hope you don't take that the wrong way, just I think you need to ask yourself if you're a cyclist or a bike builder. A few thousand miles on what you have might be a better guide to what to get next than anything anyone can post here. Go MTBing on the Vaya, it looks up to all but the most technical, certainly that's the way Salsa are selling it.
Just a thought...

More than just a thought sir, right bang along the lines I've been thinking and I agree that time would be a great leveller, but my neighbour is going out on the trails now. Yes, I could go out with him on the Vaya, I could even put different tyres on it, but it goes against my instincts, crazy as they are. To try and put my muddled thoughts into type, in order of bike importance:-

Bike1 - as in the main bike, the go to machine, the one that I shouldn't be without - that's the Vaya(was the CrossCheck) - primary function is commuting/utility but nice to be able to use on longish social rides as well, hence the idea of moving to the A11 from the I-9 - but this bike is viewed as the primary transport vehicle and shouldn't be exposed to risky activity(ie MTBing) that could take it off the road.

Bike2 - is a backup, can perform the functions of Bike1 when needed but can also be left outside shops etc as an all round utlity vehicle - this is the Dawes, but I'm aware that it falls short of the spectrum of capability that the Vaya offers - however this is the bike that I'd be most prepared to expose to risky activities such as MTBing

Bike3 - really not in the equation, this is for fun only and any backup potential is really coincidental - this is the Burls(was the Giant) but, from a practical perspective it may as well not be in the equation - it could be any bike, Bike3 is for pure indulgence

So I'm happy with Bike1 as a frameset/bike concept, but have always had plans to change to the Alfine11 as I want the alternative shifter options over the twist grip of the I-9. But that's no real change, all we're talking here is the hub gear rear wheel altering, the rest is fine.

Now I get that you think I have two great new bikes, I agree, I do, but I also have two new bikes that replaced two existing bikes(that weren't very old) that I was far from unhappy with. Put another way, I had my stable of three and then set about refining that stable using my personal preferences combined with the basics that I've learned since starting riding. In that sense I've upgraded Bike1, now the Vaya, and upgraded Bike3, now the Burls, though, as I've mentioned, on a practical level Bike3 doesn't really count as it's for fun first and foremost.

That leaves me with a view around MTBing and how much versatility I want/need in Bike2, being the spreadsheet sort of guy I am, I had this little idea where 3 bikes were needed, a main bike, a general backup bike and a fun bike. My original view was that if I ever wanted to do any MTBing then it would need to be N+1 and increase from a 3 to a 4 bike stable. But that goes against my utalitarian side, I already have the Burls which is sheer indulgence and I'd rather stick to 3 bikes than go to 4. I fully appreciate that a serious MTBing addiction would force me to a 4th bike, at least. But it may never go beyond some light trails type stuff, in which case increasing versatility around Bike2 makes more sense than going full on with a fancy MTB. If it does get more serious then I can always go up to the 4 bike stable, I won't have lost anything, but I will have a more versatile backup bike.

I have a Spesh dealer down the road from here and am having a look at their wares this week. I suppose it really comes down to 2 options:-

1. sell Dawes and buy hybrid with more offroad potential but still road/commuting ability(the Crosstrail is one but there are many others like the GT Transeo mentioned) - if the MTBing bug bites I can then get a full on MTB if need be and keep the hybrid as a general bike. So I still go to a 4 bike stable but I have improved the scope of Bike2 in the process.

2. keep the Dawes and just buy a full on MTB to make a 4 bike stable.

At this point(if you're still awake) I'd really appreciate some views on bikes like the Crosstrail and GT Transeo and what they're actually capable of. I mean I'm not shy of taking the Dawes or the Vaya over rough stuff when need be. The Vaya in particular is quite capable of handling pretty harsh ground. Are things like the Crosstrail enough of a step up or should I look for more 'full on' MTB potential?

If I buy a bike(and I think I will be) would I be better wearing out parts before replacing/upgrading or should I flog them off when new and aim for the mongrel type bike I want? I'm thinking here around replacing the sus forks for straight blade, sus corrected, steel and putting on my own preference of disc brake calipers, etc, allowing me to use a bullhorn bars setup I have in mind.

 

[frank9755]

My original view was that if I ever wanted to do any MTBing then it would need to be N+1

And you were right! Only three bikes?

Get yourself a cheap mountain bike and get out riding on it! Apart from anything else, there's no way you will be able to design the 'right' mountain bike for yourself using theory alone until you start doing it.

 

[MacB]

And you were right! Only three bikes?

Get yourself a cheap mountain bike and get out riding on it! Apart from anything else, there's no way you will be able to design the 'right' mountain bike for yourself using theory alone until you start doing it.

Now you can sod right off Frank, you're a bad influence, I have it on good authority ...mate the danger here is I'm perfectly capable of going out and blowing £500 on a MTB that, after one trip out, then never sees a mountain and just gathers dust in the garage.

I've given up on the idea of a frame as the costs just don't stack up compared to a complete bike. But I know the Dawes has drawbacks compared to my desired use for it, for starters it can't take my Winter studded tyres I think I'll go with an offroad orientated hybrid and suck it and see as to whether I need the full on MTB

So....who wants to buy a naff looking, but surprisingly well specced 3 speed commuter bike?

 

[frank9755]

Only trying to make you get another bike help!
So what are you going for? In particular, will it have suspension forks?

I've ridden a bit off-road on a steel bike with rigid forks and, while it can be done, it is both physically harder and slower than rolling along on a bike with suspension forks. In some ways it's more fun but it is certainly harder and more painful as you have to put much more effort into supporting your weight on bent knees and elbows rather than sitting on the saddle.

 

[MacB]

Only trying to make you get another bike help!
So what are you going for? In particular, will it have suspension forks?

I've ridden a bit off-road on a steel bike with rigid forks and, while it can be done, it is both physically harder and slower than rolling along on a bike with suspension forks. In some ways it's more fun but it is certainly harder and more painful as you have to put much more effort into supporting your weight on bent knees and elbows rather than sitting on the saddle.

I can resist your evil machinations....not!!!

I'm seriously tempted by the Crosstrail and ride it as is, so with suspension forks, basically treat it as a straight swap out for the Dawes. Though, being me, I do have some strange thoughts around bullhorn bars and brake/shifter combinations...I just can't help myself. I'm musing about the basic model with v-brakes or the disc model, £400 and £500 respectively. But the basic model has disc tabs and I could save the £100 and use it to buy some Avid BB7s rather than accept the Tektro mechanicals that come on the disc model. Depends on whether the base model wheelset are disc ready or not really, I'll find out when I visit the shop this week. I'm keen on the Spesh range as I can try all of them locally, not so easy with the likes of Giant and Trek etc.

I'll see how I feel after a test ride

 

[frank9755]

Why bull-horn bars??? For a mountain bike you want wide, straight-type bars, so you can get as much leverage as possible to keep your steering straight when you hit a rock...

V-brakes are fine until you start doing advanced / very fast stuff! However, should you have a change of heart and decide, in 6 months time, to sell the bike, the disc brake version would sell better!

What about it getting nicked? Will it be more attractive to thieves than your Dawes when you leave it outside a pub?