FNRttC PROVISIONAL 2012 dates

[her_welshness]

A good point which of course they should have perhaps considered. To be fair (as I referenced above) young Ed did indeed research the DD but came to the conclusion that it went to Dulwich. An easy mistake to make, but a revealing one for a person who is in the business of organising mass-participation overnight bike rides from London to the coast during July!

However, I'm not sure I agree that the Moonriders and the Dunwich Dynamo have such a similar target segment. As you will discover when you come on one, McW (ideally on a double-header weekend

), the DD is very much an amateur, unorganised and unsupported affair, which starts off in a pub, and which was created by London cycle couriers - not the sort of crowd I'd associate with my impression of Ed and his Moonies!

The DD is very much amateur and disorganised but there is much support on the ride itself and like the FNRttC it is very sociable.

As for the coach rides back from Dunwich, I have been informed that they are going to have buses leaving much earlier next year - oh to be back in Central London by midday.

I desperately want to go on the Cardiff to Swansea one in July.

Going back to DD 2012 I thought they had moved the date to the end of June to not coincide with the Olympics?

 

[velovoice]

The DD is very much amateur and disorganised but there is much support on the ride itself and like the FNRttC it is very sociable.

Amateur, yes.
Disorganised, no - as that implies someone makes plans but that they go wrong.
UNorganised - YES!
Support - hmmm, yes, but it's ad hoc and you takes pot luck. If you get into trouble, the quantity and quality of assistance you may (or may NOT) get depends entirely on whether the people who happen to be cycling near you at the time, or overtaking you in the ensuing half hour, are (a) friends and/or (b) kindly disposed and/or (c ) ABLE to render assistance... or (d) raising snakes using the DD as a training ride. Last year, the proportion of riders of the (d) persuasion was significantly higher than in the previous year. Hence some of the concerns Southwark Cyclists have. Not to mention increasingly logistical problems with transport vehicles on the beach, which leads me to...

So on the issue of support - the FNRttC is unsurpassed in my opinion.

As for the coach rides back from Dunwich, I have been informed that they are going to have buses leaving much earlier next year - oh to be back in Central London by midday.

That's been one suggestion. So far, it's a minority view. It could happen though. Proper debate on it won't open til next year.

Going back to DD 2012 I thought they had moved the date to the end of June to not coincide with the Olympics?

Correct.

 

[srw]

you forget - I always collect at the end of the ride!

...and then leave it on the breakfast table, IIRC.

 

[GrumpyGregry]

5000 riders at night/early morning on the open roads of surrey and sussex. that is going to frustrate the feck out of a heck of a lot of drivers trying to get to/from work. all it will take is one impatient numpty or one careless cyclist on the wrong side of the road at the wrong time and.....

I wonder what they think an acceptable attrition/casualty rate is?

 

[dellzeqq]

...and then leave it on the breakfast table, IIRC.

that, my boy, is the story of all my commercial dealings.

 

[dellzeqq]

5000 riders at night/early morning on the open roads of surrey and sussex. that is going to frustrate the feck out of a heck of a lot of drivers trying to get to/from work. all it will take is one impatient numpty or one careless cyclist on the wrong side of the road at the wrong time and.....

I wonder what they think an acceptable attrition/casualty rate is?

I don't think that's where the problems will be.

In no particular order
1. Getting south from the Ally Pally
2. Right turn at Blackfriars Bridge
3. Tooting Broadway - punctures and drunks
4. The cattle grids at Farthing Down (I've come off on one of those and it hurt)
5. The descent
6. If memory serves they do a bit on the A25
7. The long descent from Turners Hill to Lindfield, which is likely to see a lot of overtaking, with speeds varying from 10mph to 35mph
8. I presume that they will get a closure on the Beacon (which will be to our benefit)
9. the left right at Coldean - we have three marshals there, and they are quality items, but that blind turn is always going to be tricky, especially if they're in too high a gear
9. The descent in to Brighton - again, a lot of tired people travelling at different speeds.

I've obviously pondered this and I reckon that 2000 might be pushing it - and, even then, you have to have the expertise on tap. The BHF (searches for a phrase that doesn't put Shaun's house at risk) have a different take on risk. You give them credit for simply staring the stats in the face. Whether the Moonriders have thought things through or not I've no idea.

 

[GrumpyGregry]

sort of what I'm saying simon, the risks, if luck goes with 'em are big enough but that many bikes mixing with proper traffic, well, I'd like to see the risk assessment or the actuarial calculations.

 

[dellzeqq]

sort of what I'm saying simon, the risks, if luck goes with 'em are big enough but that many bikes mixing with proper traffic, well, I'd like to see the risk assessment or the actuarial calculations.

the thing you can't really get round is the general dopeyness. Let's be honest, we all have our moments on night rides. It acts as a kind of multiplier of risk.

I do thing night rides are safe, not least because there's so little motor traffic around, but you've got to hope that people care for each other because none of us are at our most reliable at four in the morning.

 

[Wobblers]

[QUOTE 1541227"]
I think a Fnrttc from Glasgow to St Andrews would be cool. Any Scots up for organising it...? Via Simon, of course.
[/quote]

You need to talk to Ravenbait about the Dum Run. That's from Dumbarton to St Andrews on the Friday closest to midsummer's day. Much smaller and ad-hoc compared to the FNRttC. One day I really must do it...

 

[StuartG]

I wonder if we are missing the big picture here. Whether we mixit, change the date or destination affects just one ride out of many. A minor perturbation on our nocturnal roamings.

The worry is that the Moonriders (& BHF?)lacks the experience and expertise which when scaled up to 5,000 puts it in a very much different ball game.

Not only is there very much more chance of a tragedy but the scale of the tragedy is likely to be much greater. A lunatic driver tonight might typically take out 1-4 FNRttC riders when we are spread out on a country road if he misses the space between groups of riders. Whereas with 5,000 the groupings are going to be very much bigger - likely to trigger cyclist on cyclist incidents leading to falls and swerves and frustrated car overtakes are going to be very long with nowhere to go when misjudged.

Del knows this already. But if Ed or BHF did have a cataclysmic incident - the reaction in the press and by police forces is predictable. To actively discourage night time group riding. The fact that Del must have done over 100 with only minor incidents is not going to count for anything. The whole FNRttC concept is put at risk.

That is why we should be concerned about Moonriders, not because they may possibly cause us some inconvenience on a June night. So what do we do, keep fingers crossed and hope things go well? In true BHF fashion that will just mean an even bigger one in 2013 and so on till luck runs out ...

I don't have an answer. I'm not sure there is one.

 

[mmmmartin]

the reaction in the press and by police forces is predictable

I was on the Original Mountain Marathon in Borrowdale in 2008 that was washed out and all over the papers and the radio and TV the next few days. Then the furore died down and stayed down. There is, I think, no answer to the question as to what we can do to prevent a tragedy and if it doesn't come with the Moonriders it'll come with the BHF night ride. When that happens the press will be all over these forums and emailing us and asking questions and be all over Dellzeqq like a cheap suit, hunting for the condemnatory phrase that will create a story of conflict (which is what news is). So let's be careful about what we say on here now, as it might be read by millions of people. Come to think of it, I might change my name so I can't be identified.

 

[dellzeqq]

I had given that some thought, Stuart.

I think that there is clear blue water between them and us in terms of size, experience and organisation. People who occupy positions of responsibility and who have done the ride have commented favourably on it. I need go no further than the e-mail sent to me by Rob Fuller of the CTC after his outing with us. In the end three parties matter - the insurers (who will rely on the CTC), the police and Brighton Council. I think they've all given us a good bill of health.

And, to be perfectly straight with you Martin the discussion on this forum is part of that clear blue water. The bigger, bigger picture is that we all have to be careful on our rides, there being not much any of us can do about the others. There are intelligent people reading this and thinking about how we can stay safe. We've got upwards of thirty regulars who make observations and suggestions. The preparation for each ride is (if I say so myself) rigorous. The structure of the ride is such that we can spot problems. We have a system that is tried and tested, and involves every rider in the safety effort. I'm not saying we can't improve, but I can demonstrate that the whole thing has been thought through.

 

[BalkanExpress]

Just seen that the Hilly 50 is on 10th March.

The temptation to double up with the first Brighton ride is considerable but possibly ill-judged

 

[dellzeqq]

Just seen that the Hilly 50 is on 10th March.

The temptation to double up with the first Brighton ride is considerable but possibly ill-judged

sensationally ill-judged!

 

[mmmmartin]

particularly as the Hilly is on the Sunday