Floyd Landis IS BACK!

[Chuffy]

iirc wasn't that something of a conspiracy at the time? i.e. The people that found this were up to no good in the first place so can't be relied upon at all.

Correct me if I'm wrong, I could be confused with something else.

Yes, you are wrong. There was no conspiracy. The only reason the results became public was because a journalist managed to get hold of the results and all other bits of information required to put a name to a result. It's what investigative journalists do. Armstrong's team did a fine job of raising a smokescreen, which your comments about a 'conspiracy' are testimony to.

 

[Chuffy]

OK, so David Millar gets caught red-handed, or red-blooded, but should be allowed to carry on in professional sport because he is quite a nice bloke. Someone who has never actually been caught, Rasmussen, deserves no sympathy at all

Fair comment. Sort of. But Rasmussen lied and lied and lied, even when it was quite plain that he was lying. At least when Millar realised that it was over he gave up the lies. If the Whitney testimony is true (no reason why it shouldn't be) then Rasmussen was up to no good for years. Rasmussen will serve his time and come back. It's the manner of Millar's comeback that deserves some respect. Of course, if (as I said earlier) the Grand Tours applied an Olympic style lifetime ban then he would be out.

 

[Noodley]

Hold on Noodley. How can you have sympathy for a drug cheat (Millar), but none for the rumour and innuendo directed against someone who has never been caught (Armstrong) I am well aware of the whole Lance suspicions, but he has never been caught.

Similarly with Christine Ohurugo and Tim Don, they missed tests, got banned and lots of people are wringing their hands and saying the system was confusing and they should be given a second chance. I don't hear calls for Michael Rasmussen to be re-instated as de-facto winner of the Tour from a couple of years ago, after all, he was never caught, just missed the tests.

OK, fair enough argument I suppose.

Armstrong cheated. I am in no doubt about that. I do not need legal proof to form my opinion. Yet, I can still marvel at his achievements. That should not make sense, but it is the reality. I still think he is a twat.

Ohurugo, Don and Rasmussen: they did not miss one test, it is a sequence of missed tests and warnings. The "we need to provide a diary of where we will be 3 months in advance, who can do that?" argument is bollocks as there are provisions worked into the system to notify of changes. There is a warning system. If I were an athlete and was clean and got a warning I would make sure I did not f*** up in future.

The being "caught" argument is flawed.

 

[Noodley]

I should add that I think Paul Kimmage is a twat, despite believing everything he said in his book.

 

[Chuffy]

Yet, I can still marvel at his achievements. That should not make sense, but it is the reality.

Maybe we, as fans, should be harder hearted. I'm still impressed by Landis on Morzine (is that a medication?) despite everything. Utter madness, but it sums up the ambivalence about doping that has been part of cycling since the dawn of time.

 

[Noodley]

...apparantly missed one because she was driving home because she thought that was where she had said she would be, even though the testers were already at Crystal Palace...

so that's one "apparent" missed test (which is not 100% true BTW). What about the other two? In my job I have to be accountable, and if I make an arse of it I would expect to be held responsible for the consequences. I have never been bollocked or warned..I know what I need to do and I do it.

 

[Noodley]

Anyway, I thought you were a social worker.

I've been promoted, so now I can be hard

 

[Crackle]

Armstrong cheated. I am in no doubt about that. I do not need legal proof to form my opinion. Yet, I can still marvel at his achievements. That should not make sense, but it is the reality. I still think he is a twat.

That's what I was trying to say in the other thread, except you managed it far more succinctly. I'm also still not entirely convinced on the cheating front. Certainly in his later tours, his pure power had gone, he was winning on mind games.

 

[Noodley]

...he was winning on mind games.

He must have changed to mind drugs..