Floyd Landis IS BACK!

[Renard]

The cynical part of me thinks they are all at it anyway. I feel uneasy when the 'new generation' are given plaudits when my gut feeling is that they are just one step ahead of the game. Its hard to believe that someone can go all the way through a major tour, never mind the cycling season, without some sort of medical intervention, or else their career would be very short lived. I also think that in other sports where the financial rewards are higher it stands to reason that there must be a certain amount of 'dopage' going on especially when the testing regimes are so much more lax. Throwing your hands up in horror about the names that have been caught seems a bit niaive to me.

 

[Kovu]

So then, thats one obscure Cuban high jumper

Let him back in, ban every single one of the other cheating tw@s for life. In fact ban the Cuban as well, I am in no mood for any clemency. No mercy from me I'm afraid, none at all

You wanted me to give you one example so I did.

It isn't so clear cut as what everyone thinks sometimes, which is why life long bans are not exactly fair on everyone in every circumstance.

 

[Chuffy]

It isn't so clear cut as what everyone thinks sometimes, which is why life long bans are not exactly fair on everyone in every circumstance.

The penalties for doping have got progressively more severe down the years, from fines, to a few months (after Festina several riders actually had their suspensions commuted so that they could ride in the following years TdF...) to the point we're at now, which is a 2 year ban. And still they dope (sometimes even after they've already been caught once). Maybe blanket life bans from cycling are too harsh, but life bans from all the big Tours should be mandatory, in the same way that Olympic bans are for life.

 

[Noodley]

I have degrees of sympathy and understanding re sportsmen who take drugs.

My view on Landis: cheating unremorseful bastard. I would gladly kick the f***er off his bike.

 

[Chuffy]

I have degrees of sympathy and understanding re sportsmen who take drugs.

My view on Landis: cheating unremorseful bastard. I would gladly kick the f***er off his bike.

Is that your degree of sympathy and understanding?

I can see your point, within cycling it seems to be very much part of the culture and something that is very hard to break away from. I don't see Landis being any worse than any of the other cheats who have been caught over the years (or not, as the case may be). The only difference being that he was caught after winning the Tour.

Oh and being a red head. I'm still sure that's a factor.

 

[Noodley]

Is that your degree of sympathy and understanding?

Oh and being a red head. I'm still sure that's a factor.

Firstly - yes that is the extent of my sympathy towards Landis. Others receive different degrees...

Secondly - Mrs Noodley is a redhead and she'll knock YOU off your bike if she sees that!

 

[Chuffy]

Firstly - yes that is the extent of my sympathy towards Landis. Others receive different degrees...

Secondly - Mrs Noodley is a redhead and she'll knock YOU off your bike if she sees that!

Hmm. Ricco is also a red head. Tell me, does Mrs N beat you up most of the climbs in the area?

 

[Noodley]

Hmm. Ricco is also a red head. Tell me, does Mrs N beat you up most of the climbs in the area?

Only if I have been a very naughty boy....

 

[Chuffy]

Only if I have been a very naughty boy....

I knew that wording was unfortunate, even as I typed it.....

 

[maurice]

I realise he's tried his best to get away with it etc, but I can't understand why people hate him so much.

I mean shock, horror - a tour de france winner cheated/doped! It's been going on for a century. Are all the previous winners vilified too?

 

[Noodley]

I have some degree of sympathy for David Millar, for example.

I also feel sorry for some riders who have "retired" due to being 'caught' when others continue to cheat and get away with it.

Dopers in the whole are not monsters, they are pleasant people. Personable and affable. Landis is not one of them, neither is Armstrong.

I can also recognise there are some riders not performing at the level they did a few years ago...so I can make a link between their "then" and "now" performances and 'admire' (probably not the right word) them for making changes. They may continue to deny what they did, but they have made changes.

It must be difficult. Look at what happens when you "spit in the soup"...

 

[rich p]

I have some degree of sympathy for David Millar, for example.

I also feel sorry for some riders who have "retired" due to being 'caught' when others continue to cheat and get away with it.

Dopers in the whole are not monsters, they are pleasant people. Personable and affable. Landis is not one of them, neither is Armstrong.

I can also recognise there are some riders not performing at the level they did a few years ago...so I can make a link between their "then" and "now" performances and 'admire' (probably not the right word) them for making changes. They may continue to deny what they did, but they have made changes.

It must be difficult. Look at what happens when you "spit in the soup"...

You become a well paid journalist?

 

[Chuffy]

I have some degree of sympathy for David Millar, for example.

Well yes. I like Millar, more so because (and I could be wrong) I think I can empathise to a certain extent with what he's been through and I think he's a chap who has put a lot of time and effort into thinking constructively about what happened.

I also feel sorry for some riders who have "retired" due to being 'caught' when others continue to cheat and get away with it.

Ullrich perchance? He 'retired' with a great fat wedge of cash. How much of that was earned honestly?

Dopers in the whole are not monsters, they are pleasant people. Personable and affable. Landis is not one of them, neither is Armstrong.

Funny, even Walsh seems to be baffled by Landis "If you knew him, you liked him". I liked him too and was rooting for him in 06. I'd like to know what really went on and what his real motivation for not simply holding his hands up were. I think more will emerge over the years.

I can also recognise there are some riders not performing at the level they did a few years ago...so I can make a link between their "then" and "now" performances and 'admire' (probably not the right word) them for making changes. They may continue to deny what they did, but they have made changes.

It must be difficult. Look at what happens when you "spit in the soup"...

You know cycling better than I, so it's easier for you to spot who has tailed off. But then, sportsmen and teams aren't nicely consistent with linear performance that you can plot. There's always going to be a lot of guesswork involved. As for the spitting in the soup. Yes, absolutely. I believe that Millar made a conscious decision to pin his hopes on a clean future and not try to blow the lid off cheating within cycling because he would probably have killed his career while achieving nothing. At least he seems to have put his money where his mouth is with Slipstream. Hopefully that will achieve far more in the long run than a Scot/Maltese version of Breaking the Chain.

But then, there have been so many false dawns and no-one wants to look like a naive fool. No more heroes....

 

[Chuffy]

I am well aware of the whole Lance suspicions, but he has never been caught.

EPO. 1999. Retrospective test, so no action taken.

Similarly with Christine Ohurugo and Tim Don, they missed tests, got banned and lots of people are wringing their hands and saying the system was confusing and they should be given a second chance.

They missed several and that demands no sympathy.

I don't hear calls for Michael Rasmussen to be re-instated as de-facto winner of the Tour from a couple of years ago, after all, he was never caught, just missed the tests.

As above. Also there's the testimony of Whitney Richards.

 

[maurice]

EPO. 1999. Retrospective test, so no action taken.

iirc wasn't that something of a conspiracy at the time? i.e. The people that found this were up to no good in the first place so can't be relied upon at all.

Correct me if I'm wrong, I could be confused with something else.