Fixie

[Destry]

We all hear the big gear/bad knwees story, but does anybody have the evidence?

Not I! You'll just have to take my word for it. But it is obvious that pushing a lot of power/weight through your knees is going to hurt them, isn't it?

A fixed/Single does not have to be a big gear, mines 73" which is probably higher than many, but it's hardly a big gear.

Yes, you can have any gear you like - but just the one, mind! 63 is the classic, but you have to be fit to ride fast with that gear.

Fixed riding helps you develop a smooth pedal action at a variety of cadence rates.... that's actually a useful capability..

Like I said, it's a good training bike.

So, you can overtake a fixie rider on a geared-bike... well done I've overtaken many multi-geared road-bikes on a 60 year-old fixed, many up hills, so simple comparisons mean nothing...

Is that a sarcastic emoticon, by any chance? Gross! I thought I'd demonstrated beyond any reasonable doubt that geared bikes are faster than fixies, and now this. Oh, the frustrations!

Your 4th paragraph is just bollocks IMO. Very few people can pedal smoothly, most people have a dead spot towards the top of the pedal-stroke. When the cranks are directly coupled to the rear-wheel, the momentum of the bike helps carry the legs round this dead-point and produces a more fluid and effective pedalling action. This is apparent especially climbing hills as nearly all fixed riders will testify....

Eh? The only momentum you have going uphill is derived from the action of your legs pushing the cranks -- the bike doesn't have any innate momentum of its own, and any force that goes into helping you with your dead spots gets deducted from the force available to propel the bike forwards. It is in fact that other leg of yours that is helping you out here. Riding a fixie uphill is exactly like riding a freewheled bike uphill -- until you take some action that would engage the freewheel, if you had one, and allow the bike to coast. It has to be, because the freewheel is the only difference between the two bikes. Anyone here coast uphill? Even the great Sheldon Brown, an enthusiast for fixies if ever there was one, doesn't make outlandish claims like this one.

The precise control of a track bike is even more pertinant on the rtoad than on the track. Fixed-wheelers have the benefit of being able to use the legs to slow progress as well as accelerate/maintain speed. This extra level of control is very useful, in fact I's say highly benificial in heavy traffic.

Well, freewheelers have the benefit of being able to freewheel and geared riders have the benefit of being able to change gears -- also useful in traffic. Sort of obvious, but there you go.

Add-in the fact that you can easily come to a complete standstill and remain on the bike for a smoother get-away compared to gears makes the fixed-wheeler the ideal commuting bike.

I can hear those ligaments snapping from here!

I recently ran (on my TCR) the route I used to commute fixed 25 years ago, I'd have swapped my 9spd Ultegra for my 73" gear fixed I used in the '80's any day for riding in the traffic.

And here was me thinking simple comparisons meant nothing. Doh!

Many do PBP and LEL in decent times.....

Really? I see, yes. I think we may be lapsing into tech-speak now. But it brings me to the point. You are a super-fit, super-experienced, super-skilled cycling enthusiast -- an Executive Member no less! -- who likes riding fixed for various reasons, part technical and part mystical. But most commuters aren't any of these things and probably don't want to be, either. They're just people who like riding a bike to work. They may also have read the great Sheldon's warnings here

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/fixed.html#danger

and decided they'd rather put up a with a couple of dead spots...

 

[Fab Foodie]

OK Destry, we'll probably never agree, but debate is good! Cest' la vie

Firstly, just 'cos it seems obvious that pushing a single gear around might hurt the knees, that's not evidence, I've never seen any evidence either way. My own experience of being a high gear "grinder" for over 30 years of which 25 were on fixed has not damaged my knees. Recently there was a report from the USA about elderly long-term joggers, it's often said that jogging is bad for the joints and knees, the evidence from this study said the exact opposite was true when compared to a control group. Just 'cos something seems obvious doesn't mean it's necessarily the case.

I don't know where the 63" classic gear comes from, and you don't need to be super fit to ride around on a 73 either. Until a few years ago I was a 20 Old-Holborn a day person and I managed OK even climbing Ditchling Beacon.

I'm glad you like the touch of sarcasm. (smilies not working tonight). I've read and heard many times from commuters ( a few are on here) and TT'ers that ride both fixed and geared bikes tell you that the differences between their commute/TT times are minimal, yes gears are faster, but not hugely so.

On the momentum question. A bike static alone has no momentum, but with my 85kgs pedalling plus 10kg of bike attached to a fixed-wheel at say 17mph, thats a shed-load of momentum, I can tell you that it really shifts your legs over the dead-spot easily and smoothly. Take your feet of the pedals, they go round on their own...
Try a fixed-wheel and a single-speed bike of the same gear on a pair of resistance rollers and tell me which is easier to pedal against a fixed resistance at a fixed cadence... and that's without the 95kgs of momentum at 17 mph on a real road. Weird, but strangely true.


On the subject of control in traffic, we'll have to agree to disagree. My own experience of riding in heavy city traffic is that a fixed-wheeler is preferable. It's an alternative view, but salient none the less.

Regarding using the legs to slow, track-stand and pull away again, there is no body of evidence of ligament damage doing this.

My preference for riding a fixed in London vs my triple is simply a personal preference.

Ha, me a super-fit rider, LOL! FYI, PBP is Paris-Brest-Paris and LEL is London-Edinburgh-London, the 2 longest Audax rides (1200 and 1400kms). Many people ride these gruelling events on fixed wheelers and manage them just as easily (or with the same difficulty) as their multi-geared companions. They're no more gods than the other participants. What this says to me is that a fixed-wheel bike is a perfectly suitable bike to cover long distances with some load and variable terrain.
My own history was that having restored an old 10speed bike as a student in the early '80s and commuting in London, I read about fixed-wheels in "Richards book of the bicycle". One bored weekend I bought a fixed sprocket and converted the 10 speed to the single gear that I used 90% of the time when riding. After a few laps of Clapham common I hit the road and really liked the whole experience. I converted the bike back to gears for a couple of camping tours, but always re-placed the fixed gear on return. It worked so well that I never felt the need to change. Back then I did well to encounter 1 other fixed-wheel bike a year in London, there was certainly no "trend". I was never super-fit, I kept it because it worked so well, nothing mystical, I could easily have kept the 10 gears. I'm just saying as many others have found as Fixed becomes more popular, that it IS a very suitable way to commute.

BTW, being an Executive member here conveys no more knowledge than being a newbie... it just means I should get out more often!

If you've never tried a fixed, you should. Many have succumbed to their charms, I can't believe it's all just fashion.

 

[Deleted member 1258]

Because your weight is constantly shifting as you pedal, it might not make a huge difference but sometimes it's the difference between a bit of a wobble and smooth change of direction.

Its far easier to shift the bike around (e.g lean it to one side, or shift your hips, to avoid a wingmirror) when you're coasting.

I have never had that as a problem and I am not normally aware of my weight shifting, round unless I am stood on the peddles and going very hard, I am usually still and smooth on the bike

 

[GrahamG]

I just can't stand cleaning/lubing derailleurs etc. when I cycle 6 or 7 days a week in all weathers - 3 years of maintenance translates to wet-lube every few weeks depending on weather, one new chainring (it was a cheapy so wore out quick), and two new chains.

Yes, I am lazy - thorough bike cleaning is reserved for the posh weekend bike.

 

[thebrowncup]

39:16 here

 

[thebrowncup]

riding year round here in Wisconsin. serious issues with rusty chain. the roads are salted and slushy so it doesn't take long, like a couple weeks for things to start rusting. anyone know of a bombproof, rustproof chain?

 

[andygates]

RB gets around Edinburgh nicely on her fixies and when I visited, I got around nicely too.

All that knee-doom - pfft. Never noticed it and I'm a hefty great pie-devouring gear masher. Fixed makes you strong. Hulk mash!

Browncup... the bright nickel BMX chains are pretty tough, but you need moar oyl.

 

[HeartAttack]

Well its nice to see that we have a book reader who thinks they know everything... Destry, tell us your credentials, I mean if you want to start sprouting your word and say things like we'll have to take your word for it then prove your word is worthy or are you just full of it and think everyone should bow to what you spew over the forum??

LOL on doing your knees in, a guy in my club is 74, rides a 48x16 fixed, has done since 1952 and takes it on tours etc, his knees are not shot and he can out ride and climb almost everyone I know, oh and on the down hill he can spin out at a little over 200rpm so no worries on being left behind for him.

Gears faster than fixed, crap if x gear on a geared bike is the same as y gear on a fixed and the cadence is the same then they are both as fast as each other. HJowever on a geared bike you can go higher, but conversly you will find many seasoned and well trained fixed riders will have a higher cadence ability so its back to a level playing field.

 

[andygates]

I'm a lot slower on fixed: I can't spin anything like as fast as I can freewheel, and my top speed is limited. But it's more fun, and I'm a beast uphill. It's just dif'rent innit.

 

[MajorMantra]

On the momentum question. A bike static alone has no momentum, but with my 85kgs pedalling plus 10kg of bike attached to a fixed-wheel at say 17mph, thats a shed-load of momentum, I can tell you that it really shifts your legs over the dead-spot easily and smoothly. Take your feet of the pedals, they go round on their own...

+1 - this effect is very noticeable and is absolutely not a myth. Riding fixed lets you put the power down efficiently in the 'easy' part of the pedal revolution and the momentum you create pulls your feet through the less easy portion - when the cranks are at TDC and BDC. Going uphill feels easier than on my geared bike except on the much steeper climbs where my cadence drops too much and I have to stand up and grind.

For the record, I'm riding a 76" gear (that's 48:17, based on nominal 27" wheel size) in Edinburgh. A few of the hills can be a struggle but most of the routes I take are no problem and I enjoy the extra workout for a given distance.

Matthew

 

[Destry]

Damn! I leave cyclechat for a few months and return to find myself accused of the forum equivalent of projectile vomiting. My opinions are "spew" and I am "full of it". Worse, I may be a "book reader"! Run for your lives!

No, seriously, remarking that "you'll just have to take my word for it" that pushing big gears can damage your knees was my flippant way of pointing out that this is not the proceedings of a conference on biomechanics but a forum full of opinions which you can take or leave as you see fit. I could tell a few knackered-knee anecdotes, but a stern judge such as HeartAttack is going to say, So what? I don't have "credentials" that allow me to make this claim and call it anything other than an opinion. But then, neither does HeartAttack. Just because his whirly-legged club colleague has knees like steel pistons, doesn't prove that you are not taking a risk if you choose to push a big gear on your fixie. Most people will be fine, but some will not - and they may not get much warning before the calamitous ping. (By the way, it is not riding fixed that its the problem, it is using too big a gear.)

Anyway, we can at least agree that if you ride two bikes with identical gearing at identical cadence they will go the same speed... Phew! And that if your geared rider changes up, he will go faster. Perhaps even that if your fixed rider with the blurry legs doing his maximum cadence switches to a bike with gears, he too can change up and go faster... The point is that the bike with higher gears has the potential to go faster, not that it always or inevitably will. Well, this is dull.

This momentum business seems more contentious. Any forward momentum which is used to help push your legs through the dead zone is momentum which is no longer available to make the bike go faster. If the weight of the bike is pushing against resistance at the pedal, that is in fact a braking effect. However, it feels smoother and is obviously good for the soul... Not good enough, in my bookish and vomity opinion, to compensate for having to keep the bike upright when cornering, let alone for denying yourself the great pleasure of coasting majestically down a long hill. But each to his own. My original point was merely that for most people a fixie is not a good commuter bike, and I stand by it resolutely.

However, I have now spewed on far too long and HeartAttack will be having one.

 

[MajorMantra]

Not good enough, in my bookish and vomity opinion, to compensate for having to keep the bike upright when cornering

Unless you have ridiculously long cranks, you most certainly don't have to corner upright, not even close. I've leaned over quite far on my Flyer with no problems.

Matthew

 

[Destry]

You're right, should have said "more upright"... What I missed in my fixie days was that feeling of heeling over really hard with all my weight on the outer crank at six o'clock... Ecstasy.

 

[skwerl]

the bike doesn't have any innate momentum of its own

eh? Any moving object has momentum.

I think I can see what you're getting at though. A fixed has no more momentum than any other bike.
I personally believe the whole uphill momentum, easier on fixed, etc. thing doesn't exist. You reach the start of a climb and have no choice but to go up in the gear you're in. Most people will find grinding up it slowly too hard so will end up attacking and going hell for leather. They then end up thinking they've improved their hill-climbing skills.

I do think that a fixed is easier to control at slow speeds around traffic though. Though the pedal strike issue can occasionally rear it's head it's not a big problem.

And they make good commuters in flat territory. My commute is almost void of anything hill-like, save for a couple of 2 minute sprints

 

[Smokin Joe]

eh? Any moving object has momentum.

I think I can see what you're getting at though. A fixed has no more momentum than any other bike.
I personally believe the whole uphill momentum, easier on fixed, etc. thing doesn't exist. You reach the start of a climb and have no choice but to go up in the gear you're in. Most people will find grinding up it slowly too hard so will end up attacking and going hell for leather. They then end up thinking they've improved their hill-climbing skills.

I do think that a fixed is easier to control at slow speeds around traffic though. Though the pedal strike issue can occasionally rear it's head it's not a big problem.

And they make good commuters in flat territory. My commute is almost void of anything hill-like, save for a couple of 2 minute sprints

A fixed gear is easier uphill than a freewheel because the rear wheel is pushing the cranks through the dead spot on the pedalling circle.

Big gears do not damage your knees, that is one of those internet myths with no evidence to back it up. I rode for years with a bottom gear of 42*21, as did most cyclists when you could only get five speed blocks and we are all still able to stand, walk and cycle.