Fireworks season coming up - should fireworks be banned or better regulated to protect pets?

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Alex321

Guru
Location
South Wales
Distressed animals is just one tiny part of a much bigger problem: that antisocial uses of fireworks massively outnumber legitimate uses.
Do they? Really?

I have rarely come across them being used in nything oter than a legitimate manner. And that inclues living in or near some of the less savoury areas of South Wales.

I wouldn't ban the things, but i'd be happy with severe restrictions on their sale & availability. And i'd still enjoy going to organised displays.

While I haven't bought any for quite a few years now, I don't see that any more restrictions would serve much purpose, unless they weer going to be completely banned for private use.
 

lazybloke

Priest of the cult of Chris Rea
Location
Leafy Surrey
More than the antisocial aspects of, say, dog ownership ?

Not every owner is considerate and collects their dog m's poo and hangs it from a bush like you're supposed to. Or less flippantly I'd hazard a guess that dogs kill or injure more people than fireworks

Just to be clear I love dogs, so I'm challenging the argument not calling for anti dog laws

Thought this was a thread about fireworks?
But yes, i agree with restricting sales of all sorts of things. Alcohol, knives, bee-killing pesticides, dogs, guns, chemicals, etc.

Generally these controls work fairly well; all controls need occasional tweaks.
 
More than the antisocial aspects of, say, dog ownership ?

Not every owner is considerate and collects their dog m's poo and hangs it from a bush like you're supposed to. Or less flippantly I'd hazard a guess that dogs kill or injure more people than fireworks

Just to be clear I love dogs, so I'm challenging the argument not calling for anti dog laws

Seems like you're attacking dog owners. Is that really a rational basis for argument?
 
OP
OP
T

Time Waster

Veteran
First off there is a precedent on what I am suggesting. Northern Ireland it is illegal for private citizen to buy F2, F3 or F4 category fireworks (basically anything but indoor fireworks such as restaurants put on cakes) without a fireworks licence. It controls the sale and use of them more than we have now but does not stop people who know how to use them from using them. Assuming there is a degree of learning to get the licence that is. Even just the extra effort used to get the paperwork probably creates a degree of more responsiblility in those using them.

Second, I have a dog, there are millions of dogs in the UK so why are we not wading through poop in the UK? Could it be because irresponsible dog owners are probably running at the same levels as lets say irresponsible cyclists. Plus there are about 850k horses in the UK who are heavily affected by firework noise. They do not poop on the pavement that often (and if they do if youre a keen gardener like my Dad you';d be out there with a bucket collecting it). Then again there are cats too who can be stressed too although those dirty buggerss do poop in others gardens without any owners picking it up.

So I want to know how I am being antisocial as a dog owner. There is no dog poop issue with me as it is picked up straight away. BTW dogs have a different action for wee and poo so even if the dog is far off in an empty field you get to know your dog and can easily tell the poop action from a distance and then go to collect, which I do. I still want to know how I am being antisocial.

Of course focussing on dogs forgets all the other pets and other animals who get stressed by fireworks. about 40% of dogs get stressed, 75% of horses get stressed. I did see a figure on cats but have forgotten it.

If you do not legislate for things that cause harm then there would be a free for all on the roads with no speed limits, alcohol limits, driving tests, probably even signs and road regulations. Or you would not have laws controlling who can be a medical doctor, surgeon, lawyer, etc. Anyone could work with kids and young adults. No dangerous dog or other animal legislation. Put it this way I would not be chasing off nextdoors tabby from poooping in my garden if it was the size and genetic makeup of a jaguar, tiger or lion!!

The question is not whether safety legislation is right or wrong it is whether it is warranted. At what level of harm is enough to have stronger legislation? Is it only deaths that count or serious injury / harm? According to NHS England figures last November there was 1 call for NHS burns advice over the fireworks / bonfire weekend on average every 21 seconds!! Does that no count as sufficient reason to look into stronger regulation?

Pretty much every fireworks season there are stories on TV news about thugs firing fireworks at the fire and rescue service responding to calls for help. That they need police escort to respond to fire callouts in the season due to fireworks and attacks. It pretty much happens every year. Does that sound like the regulations on fireworks are where they need to be?
 

Profpointy

Legendary Member
Seems like you're attacking dog owners. Is that really a rational basis for argument?

That's a little disingenuous as I've explicitely stated I like dogs to the extent we intend to get one at some point. The point I'm making is that to a greater or lesser extent dog or cat ownership, or even cycling itself is to an extent an annoyance or outright nuisance to those who don't participate, but are quite rightly seen as perfectly reasonable things to do, "a good thing" even. Fireworks are similar in that they bring joy to millions even if they annoy a few people on a couple of nights a year, and even cause outright harm on occasion, umm, just like dogs or cycling.
 

classic33

Leg End Member
First off there is a precedent on what I am suggesting. Northern Ireland it is illegal for private citizen to buy F2, F3 or F4 category fireworks (basically anything but indoor fireworks such as restaurants put on cakes) without a fireworks licence. It controls the sale and use of them more than we have now but does not stop people who know how to use them from using them. Assuming there is a degree of learning to get the licence that is. Even just the extra effort used to get the paperwork probably creates a degree of more responsiblility in those using them.

Second, I have a dog, there are millions of dogs in the UK so why are we not wading through poop in the UK? Could it be because irresponsible dog owners are probably running at the same levels as lets say irresponsible cyclists. Plus there are about 850k horses in the UK who are heavily affected by firework noise. They do not poop on the pavement that often (and if they do if youre a keen gardener like my Dad you';d be out there with a bucket collecting it). Then again there are cats too who can be stressed too although those dirty buggerss do poop in others gardens without any owners picking it up.

So I want to know how I am being antisocial as a dog owner. There is no dog poop issue with me as it is picked up straight away. BTW dogs have a different action for wee and poo so even if the dog is far off in an empty field you get to know your dog and can easily tell the poop action from a distance and then go to collect, which I do. I still want to know how I am being antisocial.

Of course focussing on dogs forgets all the other pets and other animals who get stressed by fireworks. about 40% of dogs get stressed, 75% of horses get stressed. I did see a figure on cats but have forgotten it.

If you do not legislate for things that cause harm then there would be a free for all on the roads with no speed limits, alcohol limits, driving tests, probably even signs and road regulations. Or you would not have laws controlling who can be a medical doctor, surgeon, lawyer, etc. Anyone could work with kids and young adults. No dangerous dog or other animal legislation. Put it this way I would not be chasing off nextdoors tabby from poooping in my garden if it was the size and genetic makeup of a jaguar, tiger or lion!!

The question is not whether safety legislation is right or wrong it is whether it is warranted. At what level of harm is enough to have stronger legislation? Is it only deaths that count or serious injury / harm? According to NHS England figures last November there was 1 call for NHS burns advice over the fireworks / bonfire weekend on average every 21 seconds!! Does that no count as sufficient reason to look into stronger regulation?

Pretty much every fireworks season there are stories on TV news about thugs firing fireworks at the fire and rescue service responding to calls for help. That they need police escort to respond to fire callouts in the season due to fireworks and attacks. It pretty much happens every year. Does that sound like the regulations on fireworks are where they need to be?
The ban on fireworks in Northern Ireland is for a totally separate reason, which we haven't come close to experiencing on the mainland.

It never actually stopped fireworks being sold either. And although the thread title appears to have changed, keep politics out of this, the OP is drifting towards bringing them into this thread
 
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Electric_Andy

Heavy Metal Fan
Location
Plymouth
I don't think you can compare fireworks to cycling. Cycling is a legitimate mode of transport, and a leisure activity. Fireworks have no purpose other than for entertainment
 

classic33

Leg End Member
First off there is a precedent on what I am suggesting. Northern Ireland it is illegal for private citizen to buy F2, F3 or F4 category fireworks (basically anything but indoor fireworks such as restaurants put on cakes) without a fireworks licence. It controls the sale and use of them more than we have now but does not stop people who know how to use them from using them. Assuming there is a degree of learning to get the licence that is. Even just the extra effort used to get the paperwork probably creates a degree of more responsiblility in those using them.

Pretty much every fireworks season there are stories on TV news about thugs firing fireworks at the fire and rescue service responding to calls for help. That they need police escort to respond to fire callouts in the season due to fireworks and attacks. It pretty much happens every year. Does that sound like the regulations on fireworks are where they need to be?
The problem isn't the proper, and legal use, of fireworks. It's the improper and illegal use of legal and illegal fireworks. The sale of which is restricted, and approval required before you can, legally, start storing them, let alone sell them.

As far as the scare tactics being used go, there was a fire engine taken out of use, near me, after one of the crew was hit by an illegally sold/bought firework. This was in July, in the early hours of the morning.
 
The ban on fireworks in Northern Ireland is for a totally separate reason, which we haven't come close to experiencing on the mainland.

It never actually stopped fireworks being sold either.
The history of the "ban" - which isn't actually a ban, the post you reply to made that perfectly clear - doesn't matter in this context; the point is that it worked!

I can go to Belfast and enjoy a professional organised display. I can sleep through the night without me (or my neighbour's dog) being woken at 3am. The police don't have to deal with deliberate dangerous acts.
I can have candles on my birthday cake!
 

Profpointy

Legendary Member
I don't think you can compare fireworks to cycling. Cycling is a legitimate mode of transport, and a leisure activity. Fireworks have no purpose other than for entertainment

"Going for a ride" or even racing, as opposed to cycling to work is mere entertainment too isn't it? This so-called criticism is often used against cyclists "holding up traffic" by Daily Mail type "motorists" after all.
 
"Going for a ride" or even racing, as opposed to cycling to work is mere entertainment too isn't it? This so-called criticism is often used against cyclists "holding up traffic" by Daily Mail type "motorists" after all.

You seem to have a world-view entirely predicated on revenge and spite. Why can't people just have a reasonable discussion:
- Can you please clean-up after your dogs? I know it's inconvenient, but they can spread disease.
- Yeah ok.
- Thanks. Bye!
 

Profpointy

Legendary Member
You seem to have a world-view entirely predicated on revenge and spite. Why can't people just have a reasonable discussion:
- Can you please clean-up after your dogs? I know it's inconvenient, but they can spread disease.
- Yeah ok.
- Thanks. Bye!

wtf would you say that based in what I actually said?
 

lazybloke

Priest of the cult of Chris Rea
Location
Leafy Surrey
Thinking about it, fireworks don't cause nearly as much trouble as alcohol does.

I love wine, (proper) beer, mead, G&T, etc, but there's no denying it causes terrible problems for individuals and society.
 
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