Fasting

[phil_hg_uk]

@colinj I watched a program on Netfix last night that you might find interesting it is called Hungry For Change, I found a link to it on the internet here -> http://www.disclose.tv/action/viewvideo/92129/Hungry_For_Change/

 

[PK99]

Porridge is what I eat on 'normal' days and I find it extremely 'sustaining'. It may surprise you, but porridge contains more than 50% of the protein in sirloin beef steak! (About 11% vs 21% by weight)

Fasting days like today - just a banana and some low fat natural yoghurt. Which reminds me ... it's time for my tuna salad!

problem with porridge on diet days is that a 200cal portion (incl milk) is tiny!

 

[ColinJ]

problem with porridge on diet days is that a 200cal portion (incl milk) is tiny!

That's why I chose yoghurt and banana on fasting days!

I worked out that the porridge and banana that I eat on the other 5 days is about 500 calories.

 

[Typhon]

How does this work in relation to exercise? Is the 600 cal limit for the 5:2 diet total calories or net calories? E.g. If I eat 1500 calories and burn off 900 on the bike does that count as a fast day or can I only eat 600 calories no matter what I do in terms of exercise?

A friend of mine is doing this and having great success with it. When I cycle 4-5 days a week I lose 1-2 lbs and I only need to lose another 9 lbs to get down to my ideal weight so I'm not too bothered about weight loss but I am interested in the other health benefits.

I could stand burning 1000 calories on the bike and eating 1600. I need about 2500 just to live so that would leave me 1900 calories negative and feeling pretty bad in my experience but I could do it. I couldn't burn 1000 calories on the bike and only eat 600 all day though. I was severely calorie negative after a ride on Saturday and I curled up in a ball on the sofa feeling like death until someone almost force fed me pizza and within an hour I was on my feet full of beans again.

 

[Scoosh]

AFAIK, the health benefits come from the fasting ie not putting food into the stomach over an extended period - 16 hrs or more.

You would need to cycle a lo-o-ng way to burn 1000 calories too ... probably more than 3hrs riding.

What you describe after your ride on Saturday sounds like a classic 'bonk' - running out of energy - which is restored very quickly by taking in some food.

It's a balance between reducing food consumption, enough exercise, not too much exercise (maybe the right kind ? gentle, not flat out ??), reduced food intake ...

I really should get the book from Mrs Scoosh and read it all myself !

 

[Typhon]

AFAIK, the health benefits come from the fasting ie not putting food into the stomach over an extended period - 16 hrs or more.

You would need to cycle a lo-o-ng way to burn 1000 calories too ... probably more than 3hrs riding.

What you describe after your ride on Saturday sounds like a classic 'bonk' - running out of energy - which is restored very quickly by taking in some food.

It's a balance between reducing food consumption, enough exercise, not too much exercise (maybe the right kind ? gentle, not flat out ??), reduced food intake ...

I really should get the book from Mrs Scoosh and read it all myself !

I know but I'm doing all the right things to burn fat I'm just not doing it by fasting and I'm wondering if I'm missing out on any health benefits from that.

It felt like a bonk but I only felt it in the last 2 miles coming home. The garmin said I burned 1900 calories on my 2 1/2 hour ride and I didn't eat anything. IIRC your body only holds about 1600-2000 calories worth of glycogen at once so the fact that I bonked right at the end sort of shows the garmin to be correct. Strava always says I burned less and did so on that ride - 1150 in fact. Personally I think the Garmin is more accurate as you can program in your height and weight unlike Strava (weight is just used for comparison) and the sites that I have been on show a similar rate of calories burned per hour (600-700) for my height and weight. Bear in mind my average heart rate is usually around 165 beats per minute and I regularly get close to my max of around 195.

There are a load of threads about calories burned per hour so we'd better not take it off topic though.

 

[ColinJ]

@colinj I watched a program on Netfix last night that you might find interesting it is called Hungry For Change, I found a link to it on the internet here -> http://www.disclose.tv/action/viewvideo/92129/Hungry_For_Change/

It looks interesting Phil. I will watch it one evening because at nearly 1.5 hours in length, it is a bit long for casual daytime viewing!

 

[PK99]

AFAIK, the health benefits come from the fasting ie not putting food into the stomach over an extended period - 16 hrs or more.

Neither of the patterns outlined in the book "the fast diet" by Mossley and spencer involves such a fast.

Mossley (he of the TV programme that sparked the interest) does 5:2 with a diet day being Family breakfast at 7:30 am and family supper at 7:30 pm ie 2*12 hours

Spencer does two meals with snacks (apple, carrot) inbetween

 

[PK99]

How does this work in relation to exercise? Is the 600 cal limit for the 5:2 diet total calories or net calories? E.g. If I eat 1500 calories and burn off 900 on the bike does that count as a fast day or can I only eat 600 calories no matter what I do in terms of exercise?

.

the "fast diet" book is explicit : "do not... increase your fast day food allowance to compensate for calories burned through exercise"

 

[phil_hg_uk]

It looks interesting Phil. I will watch it one evening because at nearly 1.5 hours in length, it is a bit long for casual daytime viewing!

Yes I guess it is quite long, I got into it I didnt really notice to be honest. I found it very informative and I am going to try altering what I eat in line with some of the things they pointed out which when you think about it make perfect sense.

 

[ColinJ]

I'm not getting worried about the timing of the meals on 'fasting days' or exactly how many calories I am consuming. I think the general principles are what matter:

• The human body is not designed to cope with a never-ending supply of energy-dense food.
• Having a couple of fasting days a week gives it a chance to do some essential maintenance work. Aim for about 25% of your normal daily calorie needs on those days.
• A varied diet is important.
• Good quality food should make up (say) 90% of what we eat.
• We can enjoy minor indulgences, but not on fasting days.
• Try not to eat more on non-fasting days to 'make up', unless you are losing too much weight.
• Alcohol is okay in moderate amounts but don't get totally p***ed, and keep drinking days separated by at least one day off the booze, preferably more.

 

[ColinJ]

Oh, and alcohol contains a lot of calories and almost zero food value so if you are going to drink and want to lose weight, then count those calories, and realise that you are sacrificing nutritious food to get them!

 

[Typhon]

the "fast diet" book is explicit : "do not... increase your fast day food allowance to compensate for calories burned through exercise"

Ah ok, thanks. That's my quesiton answered then. For the last few weeks I've been cycling 5 days week and looking to extend that to 6 and increase the distance when the clocks go forward so I don't think this is for me. Even with the 5:2 it would involve fasting on a cycling day and I don't fancy that.

 

[ColinJ]

Ah ok, thanks. That's my quesiton answered then. For the last few weeks I've been cycling 5 days week and looking to extend that to 6 and increase the distance when the clocks go forward so I don't think this is for me. Even with the 5:2 it would involve fasting on a cycling day and I don't fancy that.

But you really ought to have easy cycling days in between the hard days otherwise you never get the chance to recover properly. You could fast on a couple of the recovery days?

 

[Typhon]

But you really ought to have easy cycling days in between the hard days otherwise you never get the chance to recover properly. You could fast on a couple of the recovery days?

I'm planning on doing a recovery ride on the Monday and then a rest day on the Thursday so hopefully that will be enough for me to recover. I could fast on the Monday but I'm not sure even with say a gentle 10-15 mile ride whether I could restrict my calories to 600. I'm quite an active person and if I eat less than about 1300 calories in a day, even without really exercising, I carb crash and feel like death. So it would be even worse with the ride thrown in even if it was just a gentle pootle about.