Facebook is no more

[Wobblers]

Thanks for that, there's no need to continue.

CycleChat and Facebook are both forms of social media.

That's all my point is. Obviously they're not identical, but they are fundamentally the same.

This is a false equivalence.

Cyclechat is a forum - something now considered "social media" which exists to allow people with similar interests to share ideas and conversations. It has no other purpose.

Facebook on the contrary, is a marketing company which has a business model to gather as much data as possible and in particular get information about peoples' social network. The social media part is merely the mechanism that is used to feed its requirement for data. It is a means to an end, rather than the end in itself as CC is.

 

[Wobblers]

Yet on a quiet night you can spend hours researching in a vain effort to understand wtf you should become a "friend" of the person suggested by F/B .

I found that becoming a misanthrope saved a lot of time with that sort of thing.

Well, I say "becoming" though "being" is probably more accurate

 

[Andrew_P]

That Google and others engage in similar activities does not excuse Facebook. (And, as it happens, I routinely block scripts from Google such as the ubiquitous googleanalytics. Nor is this machine running a Microsoft OS.) So this site has tracking cookies? Well I never: I never noticed. But then, I wouldn't; that's why I've got addons like Self-Destructing Cookies for.

The reason "big data is everywhere" is that most people simply accept that - without thought to the consequences. Worse, some make excuses for it, just as you're doing. Big data is merely a tool. It can be used for good or for ill. There needs to be a debate about how these technologies are used - that is our safeguard against its worst excesses. But as long as people continue to accept without question, or make excuses, this will not happen.

Not sure where you got I find any of it acceptable nor the assumption i am not using software I was just pointing out the media focus and your post was centered on one target and soggesting CC was benign and cuddly, which it might be if people are comfortable with Google analytics, skimlinks etc.

 

[Kempstonian]

I had a Facebook account and I used to play those games where you had to recruit other people to help you. I had about 800 'friends' who I didn't know from Adam. When I decided not to play the games any more I spent a day deleting lots of those people from my friends list. The following day I tried to log in and got a message saying my account had been disabled (presumably by Facebook).

Initally I tried to find out why but there is no phone number to call and the website just displays a message about their rules - and I hadn't broken any of them. So I gave up with Facebook and didn't use it for ages.

Then I needed to look at one or two Facebook groups, so I had to make another account, but I couldn't use my real name because I'd used it already for the account that was disabled. I never use the new account unless I'm looking at somebody's page. I never post anything on my account and there are no details on my profile page.

I still think nothing good ever came out of Facebook. I have no other social media accounts either.

 

[AndyRM]

This is a false equivalence.

Cyclechat is a forum - something now considered "social media" which exists to allow people with similar interests to share ideas and conversations. It has no other purpose.

Facebook on the contrary, is a marketing company which has a business model to gather as much data as possible and in particular get information about peoples' social network. The social media part is merely the mechanism that is used to feed its requirement for data. It is a means to an end, rather than the end in itself as CC is.

We clearly disagree on the definition of what constitutes social media.

My view is that it covers all forms of communication online. Pretty simple really, and not over complicated by the ethics (or lack of) applied by a particular platform.

 

[nickyboy]

We clearly disagree on the definition of what constitutes social media.

My view is that it covers all forms of communication online. Pretty simple really, and not over complicated by the ethics (or lack of) applied by a particular platform.

The difference between CC and FB is the reason for their existence

As far as I can tell, CC exists to provide a forum for like-minded people to talk about cycling things (or Fray Bentos pies). Data is collected by the owner and some targeted ads are there to, it seems, pay for the upkeep of the site

FB exists to extract data from its users. The functionality is there, not to provide a good experience for users, but to facilitate the greater extraction of data from users

Both are Social Media. But the reason for their existence and the way their system architecture is configured sets them miles apart

 

[mjr]

The difference between CC and FB is the reason for their existence

As far as I can tell, CC exists to provide a forum for like-minded people to talk about cycling things (or Fray Bentos pies). Data is collected by the owner and some targeted ads are there to, it seems, pay for the upkeep of the site

FB exists to extract data from its users. The functionality is there, not to provide a good experience for users, but to facilitate the greater extraction of data from users

Both are Social Media. But the reason for their existence and the way their system architecture is configured sets them miles apart

I hate to disagree but if CC is run by a private company (not a cooperative or benecom or similar), then its reason for existence is exactly the same as FB's, by law: to make money for its investors. They just might differ in how their directors choose to do it, though.

BTW, can anyone find CC's business contact details, including registration and geographic address. That's required to be shown by law these days, isn't it? Not that trading standards have enough time to enforce it much...

 

[nickyboy]

I hate to disagree but if CC is run by a private company (not a cooperative or benecom or similar), then its reason for existence is exactly the same as FB's, by law: to make money for its investors. They just might differ in how their directors choose to do it, though.

BTW, can anyone find CC's business contact details, including registration and geographic address. That's required to be shown by law these days, isn't it? Not that trading standards have enough time to enforce it much...

Eh? There is no law to say that the only objective of a limited company is to make profits for its shareholders. Of course if you can show me something in the Companies Act to that effect.....

 

[Kempstonian]

Is CC run by a company then? Most forums are run by a few long standing members.

 

[AndyRM]

The difference between CC and FB is the reason for their existence

As far as I can tell, CC exists to provide a forum for like-minded people to talk about cycling things (or Fray Bentos pies). Data is collected by the owner and some targeted ads are there to, it seems, pay for the upkeep of the site

FB exists to extract data from its users. The functionality is there, not to provide a good experience for users, but to facilitate the greater extraction of data from users

Both are Social Media. But the reason for their existence and the way their system architecture is configured sets them miles apart

I'd disagree that they're miles apart, in scale yes, but not on a fundamental level.

 

[mjr]

Eh? There is no law to say that the only objective of a limited company is to make profits for its shareholders. Of course if you can show me something in the Companies Act to that effect.....

That's adding the word "only" to what I wrote - as a member of several cooperatives, I'm well aware that other objectives can be added alongside. Companies Act 2006 s172 establishes that "A director of a company must act in the way he considers, in good faith, would be most likely to promote the success of the company for the benefit of its members as a whole [...]" (a private company's members are its shareholders) - except for some caveats around charity companies, it's pretty inescapable.

 

[nickyboy]

I'd disagree that they're miles apart, in scale yes, but not on a fundamental level.

And I'd disagree with you

CC seems to be set up to provide a social media forum for cyclists. Any data mining seems incidental and used to keep the site alive. FB seems to be set up to do data mining and the social media aspect is the front end that draws in the traffic

As such I'm happy to participate in CC and get a few targeted ads as I think (rightly or wrongly) that's as far as it goes. I'm not happy to participate in FB as I think (rightly or wrongly) that they are all about extracting and data about me

 

[mjr]

Is CC run by a company then? Most forums are run by a few long standing members.

In practical terms, you're probably right that the mods and admin run it, but conceptually, most are owned by a company. I think CC used to be owned by CTX Media Ltd (formerly known as Clickfinity Ltd), but that dissolved this year and I can't find the current details on this website anywhere. Can you?

 

[Kempstonian]

In practical terms, you're probably right that the mods and admin run it, but conceptually, most are owned by a company. I think CC used to be owned by CTX Media Ltd (formerly known as Clickfinity Ltd), but that dissolved this year and I can't find the current details on this website anywhere. Can you?

No I can't. I suppose you could ask a mod or maybe post a query in the support section?

Its not something I've thought about... I've only been here a month.

 

[srw]

In practical terms, you're probably right that the mods and admin run it, but conceptually, most are owned by a company. I think CC used to be owned by CTX Media Ltd (formerly known as Clickfinity Ltd), but that dissolved this year and I can't find the current details on this website anywhere. Can you?

The accounts for CTX Media Ltd are available via Companies House. From its establishment to its dissolution earlier this year it was dormant. It never did anything. CTX Media also appears to be a trading name previously used by Shaun, presumably acting as a sole trader. This site has never been run or owned by a company, only by an individual.

As to whether CC is materially different from FB - only in that a user base in the thousands doesn't give you the data that a user base in the billions does .