Facebook Group.

[speedkingsox]

Mr Hippo, im shocked at your attitude, i'll answer you points....

'I hope you are not lumping me or any other decent cyclist in your group 'us cyclists'. What have you ever done to either earn the respect of others or deserve the respect of others?
Let's look at a few examples on this forum:-'

When i say 'us' cyclists, i mean the cyclists who are out there everyday on the roads either commuting, training or just having fun. Clearly you dont know me and i dont know you but i feel that locally i have earned the respect of others.

'Provoking incidents - by adjusting your speed and/or position slightly there would be no 'incident'. Do not try to counter with the childish argument of 'Why should I?''

Adjusting my speed and or position, that would prevent me from being hit from behind, would it?

'Posting videos on the internet when it is your fault and blaming others. It only makes you look foolish but if that is what you want to do then carry on!'

There are no video's posted relating to accidents or incidents. On Youtube there are 55+ cycling video's that have had 53000 views.

'The 'I had right of way' argument - but you don't. Given the choice of either stopping or arriving at the Pearly Gates way before my time and telling St Peter that "I had right of way!", I would rather stop.'

You would rather stop than use your 'right of way'? do you evere cycle on the public roads then?

'Hitting out at vehicles Wow, very sensible! What would happen if you or your clothing got caught on a loose bit of trim or other obstruction?'

Does it mention that in th Respect Cyclists group?

'Screaming at motorists like a 5 year old - very adult behaviour.'

Your adult life has just been threatened by an aggresive/dangerous driver, tell me, how do you react?

'Now, please enjoy your cycling and earn the respect of others.'

I have spent many years enjoying my cycling, and this the whole point of this group, i want to enjoy my cycling for many years to come. As i type this a cyclist i know, a teacher, is lying in hospital with a broken pelvis, broken ribs, 3 fractured, bruised liver, numerous cuts and bruises and last week had his spleen removed, he had been riding to his school when he was hit from behind. Another cyclist i know was killed by a motorist hitting him from behind. i have been hit twice by cars, both times the Court favoured me as not being at fault. I could go on telling you about people i know who have been hit by cars..... i would be here all day. And i feel many others in this forum have similar stories.

BTW at this moment there are 122 'us cyclists' in the Respect Cyclists group. Im guessing these are 'any other decent cyclists'

I have a beautiful 5 month old daughter at home and it saddens me that some motorists dont value cyclists lives on the road.

Be safe out there.

SOX!

 

[mr_hippo]

Followed by a list of percieved misdemeanors. Seems pretty clear to me that you are lumping speedkingsox in with the crowd you disapprove of. You have no idea what speedkingsox has or hasn't done to 'deserve' respect. I tend to think that cycling in a legal fashion, and being a human being, is enough to deserve a certain amount of respect (actually, to be more accurate, it should be 'basic courtesy') on the roads.

I didn't join facebook, I was already signed up, but not very active. I joined the group, it took one click. As you've frequently demonstrated yourself to be rather rude and pompous, it was a pleasure to think you might be annoyed by the group.

I have neither time nor inclination to teach you to read but if someone uses the word 'us', do they include themselves in that group? So if he wants other road users to respect cyclists suggests that he does not get any.
One more tip for you, it is generally 'i' before 'e' except after 'c'!
Annoyed by the group? Amused - yes; annoyed no!
"I tend to think that cycling in a legal fashion...", so why don't you cycle in a legal fashion?

Riding in this morning, stopped at the back (ok, actually inside the box, just) of a yellow box junction in a queue, in a secondaryish position. Can see lights, traffic is about to move off ahead.

Is it down to your poor reading skills? Which part of "You MUST NOT enter the box until your exit road or lane is clear." do you not understand?

 

[Arch]

Will the group promote:

• Obeying all red lights at junctions and pedestrian crossings.
• Riding cycles on the pavement only when it's a shared use facility.
• The cautioning/issuing of FPN to all cyclists riding without lights at night.
• The use of polite remonstrations with other road users.
• The notion that denting vehicle door panels is criminal damage not retribution.
• That riding between long vehicles and the kerb when approaching a left turn decreases one's life expectancy.

It's easier to convert the behaviour of the minority than the majority and once the perceived misbehaviour of cyclists is eliminated then start on converting the rest of the population having removed their justifications for poor behaviour.

Just a thought......

Looking at the comments left so far (including a couple from cyclists keen to highlight how well lit they are) ,I'd say the answer is probably yes.

I see your point, but I don't think it's a case of trying to change bad cyclists first, then bad drivers. Why not tackle all at the same time? (Although there is the argument that my safety shouldn't be reliant on the good behaviour of others).

I saw a middle aged chap go clean through a red light yesterday, I was longing for him to be held at the next so that I could have a word, but since I waited through a whole traffic and pedestrian crossing cycle, he was long gone...

 

[Arch]

"I tend to think that cycling in a legal fashion...", so why don't you cycle in a legal fashion?

Is it down to your poor reading skills? Which part of "You MUST NOT enter the box until your exit road or lane is clear." do you not understand?

I made an error and admitted it. Thanks for pulling that up. What a petty minded little man you are.

 

[speedkingsox]

Will the group promote:

• Obeying all red lights at junctions and pedestrian crossings.
• Riding cycles on the pavement only when it's a shared use facility.
• The cautioning/issuing of FPN to all cyclists riding without lights at night.
• The use of polite remonstrations with other road users.
• The notion that denting vehicle door panels is criminal damage not retribution.
• That riding between long vehicles and the kerb when approaching a left turn decreases one's life expectancy.

It's easier to convert the behaviour of the minority than the majority and once the perceived misbehaviour of cyclists is eliminated then start on converting the rest of the population having removed their justifications for poor behaviour.

Just a thought......

I agree with all the above points, anyone i ride with also agree's with the above points, i'd say the vast majority of cyclist do, its always the minorities that let themsleves down. In the same way its the odd few motorists that drive dangerously, 95% of drivers are very courteous and patient..... its the 5% have the potential to injure or kill.

Your point about lights, it is a very important point to me (8 lights and as much hi-viz gear i can wear!) One night rding into work i spotted someone riding a bike on the road, no lights and wearing dark/black clothing, to make it worse, the pavement beside the road was an official cycle path!!!!, so i caught up with him, cars were swerving around him as it was hard to see him, and i rode behind him for 2 miles until i had to change direction for work, i spoke to him that he really needs lights, he had just arrived in Northern Ireland for University.


SOX!
Team Madigan

 

[speedkingsox]

BTW Vernon, what is 'polite remonstrations'?

How do you politely acknowledge 'you nearly knocked me off young/old man/woman'



SOX!

 

[Arch]

The problem with the 'polite remonstration' thing is that if you've just been narrowly missed, or hit, you're full of adrenalin - on top of possibly being buzzing from the general cut and thrust of cycling in traffic. This is bound to make you momentarily more aggressive than normal, unless you have a very laid back attitude. It's probably better to release that agression with a muttered curse, and let them go, than argue face to face, but in the heat of the moment it's difficult.

 

[mr_hippo]

Mr Hippo, im shocked at your attitude, i'll answer you points....

'I hope you are not lumping me or any other decent cyclist in your group 'us cyclists'. What have you ever done to either earn the respect of others or deserve the respect of others?
Let's look at a few examples on this forum:-'

When i say 'us' cyclists, i mean the cyclists who are out there everyday on the roads either commuting, training or just having fun. Clearly you dont know me and i dont know you but i feel that locally i have earned the respect of others.
I'm 'out there' nearly every day so far I have cycled over 1600kms this year

'Provoking incidents - by adjusting your speed and/or position slightly there would be no 'incident'. Do not try to counter with the childish argument of 'Why should I?''

Adjusting my speed and or position, that would prevent me from being hit from behind, would it?
If you are spatially aware then you could take evasive action.

'Posting videos on the internet when it is your fault and blaming others. It only makes you look foolish but if that is what you want to do then carry on!'

There are no video's posted relating to accidents or incidents. On Youtube there are 55+ cycling video's that have had 53000 views.
Have you ever seen any of the 'close overtake' incidents on youtube?

'The 'I had right of way' argument - but you don't. Given the choice of either stopping or arriving at the Pearly Gates way before my time and telling St Peter that "I had right of way!", I would rather stop.'

You would rather stop than use your 'right of way'? do you evere cycle on the public roads then?
What 'right of way'? You do not have any! Where did you get that information from? Most of my cycling is done in either very heavy traffic or on national highways
'Hitting out at vehicles Wow, very sensible! What would happen if you or your clothing got caught on a loose bit of trim or other obstruction?'

Does it mention that in th Respect Cyclists group?

'Screaming at motorists like a 5 year old - very adult behaviour.'

Your adult life has just been threatened by an aggresive/dangerous driver, tell me, how do you react?
By not getting in that situation in the first place - it's that simple!

'Now, please enjoy your cycling and earn the respect of others.'

I have spent many years enjoying my cycling, and this the whole point of this group, i want to enjoy my cycling for many years to come. As i type this a cyclist i know, a teacher, is lying in hospital with a broken pelvis, broken ribs, 3 fractured, bruised liver, numerous cuts and bruises and last week had his spleen removed, he had been riding to his school when he was hit from behind. Another cyclist i know was killed by a motorist hitting him from behind. i have been hit twice by cars, both times the Court favoured me as not being at fault. I could go on telling you about people i know who have been hit by cars..... i would be here all day. And i feel many others in this forum have similar stories.

BTW at this moment there are 122 'us cyclists' in the Respect Cyclists group. Im guessing these are 'any other decent cyclists'

I have a beautiful 5 month old daughter at home and it saddens me that some motorists dont value cyclists lives on the road.

Be safe out there.

SOX!

You say that you have been hit by cars twice but you don't say how long you have been cycling. I have been hit once in 50 years of cycling!

 

[speedkingsox]

I have been riding 26 years and 5 as a competing cyclist, hit once in 50 years? lucky you. lets hope the next one isnt fatal. It only takes one.

Spatial awareness? hmm thats where im going wrong, i have long hair and its covering the eyes on the back of my head. What evasive action can you take at 25 mph when reasonable close to the kerb, and an elderly driver hits you from behind because he didnt see you?

A driver passes you very close or as reported on the timetriallingforum.co.uk, a cyclist was hit with a stick by a passenger of a passing car, tell me, how do you not get into that situation in the first place?

As for 'right of way', you are travelling on a main road and a vehicle pulls out from a side road in front of you, who has right of way? the vehicle?


Things must be different in Thailand.


Good luck.


SOX!

 

[Arch]

You say that you have been hit by cars twice but you don't say how long you have been cycling. I have been hit once in 50 years of cycling!

One, or even two, people doesn't make a representative sample.

I've never been hit by a car (there goes the jinx), but I've had people drive badly around me. But I suppose it was all my own fault, was it?

 

[Eat MY Dust]

As for 'right of way', you are travelling on a main road and a vehicle pulls out from a side road in front of you, who has right of way? the vehicle?

Some people have a real hang up about "right of way" apparently there is no such thing as "right of way" the correct terminology is "priority" to me it's the same thing, but some people have a right bug bear about it.

 

[Arch]

Some people have a real hang up about "right of way" apparently there is no such thing as "right of way" the correct terminology is "priority" to me it's the same thing, but some people have a right bug bear about it.

Whatever it's called, the Highway Code does say that you should cede it to avoid an accident, in an emergency. I suspect, since the result will hurt more for a cyclist, we'd all do that anyway, maybe more likely so than drivers. But riding along a main road, I think we have a right to expect drivers not to pull out of a side road etc...

Acutally, I've had a couple of occasions recently when a driver has waved me on, even though it's not been my priority, and I've done the same for drivers sometimes. But it's not the polite, thoughtful people we need to do something about.

 

[mr_hippo]

Arch, are there any remedial English classes in your area? You need to attend.
"Always give way if it can help to avoid an incident." - http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/TravelAndTransport/Highwaycode/DG_069856
It applies to all road users and not just cyclists.
Incident and accident are different things.

 

[Sh4rkyBloke]

aaah, the joys of mr_hippo and his whining... I've missed you, old bean.. much like one would miss a puss filled boil.

 

[Arch]

Arch, are there any remedial English classes in your area? You need to attend.
"Always give way if it can help to avoid an incident." - http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/TravelAndTransport/Highwaycode/DG_069856
It applies to all road users and not just cyclists.
Incident and accident are different things.

Didn't I just say that? Or are you nit picking over the words incident and accident. Perhaps you'd like to explain how you think the difference is relevant in this discussion.

Where did I say it only applied to one type of road user? I did suggest that being cocooned in metal might make some drivers less likely to give way, than a vulnerable cyclist. That's nothing to do with who it applies to, and everything to do with the mentality of the individual road user. I'd like to think even you might agree that not all road users apply the law fairly, if they can get away with it.