Everything You Need To Know About Bike Lubricants (But Were Afraid To Ask!)

[Arrowfoot]

Just a couple of points I'd challenge though:

Why can't I make recommendations? I haven't suggested it is market leading, or the best out there, just something I have experience with and use. I don't have to fly with every plane operator to say my trip with Virgin Atlantic was good, or stay in every hotel in a city to say that I enjoyed the one I stayed in. I am offering a view, and the products I have used have done the job without any problems. I'm not claiming they are market leading, just that they work. For someone new this is helpful.

Secondly, my unique perspective on this is that I am an amateur. The tag line to the site is 'learnings from a an amateur cyclist'. Maybe I need to make this clearer in the post topics. This is stuff I am picking up on the way, but just because I don't have 30 years experience on it does not invalidate my view. Some people aren't looking for a ridiculous amount of detail, just enough to get them going without causing any damage, and this is what I have offered here. Some hairs to be split, some more detail I could have gone into, but then I may have spent 2 years researching a 1500 word piece. In 15 years time when I have the experience of some of you guys I may look back on this article and realise how stupid I was, however I am documenting my journey into cycling, not claiming to be an world expert on these topics.

And hey, I may be wrong on both of these points, but that's the beauty of writing, it conjures up debate, as hard as it is to read the critical views, they will help make my writing stronger in the future and put even more thought into how I present a topic, so thank you to all of your for taking time to help me out.

Ben

Hey Ben, whenever there are posts like yours and the challenges from the likes of Yellow Saddle, we are all benefit as a community. Keep it coming and thanks.

 

[Citius]

Really useful post, I think I might use some of this as a mantra!. Don't be afraid to make public mistakes is one of them!

Quite - but on the other hand, I really would advise you against presenting your posts as 'advice' - especially when some of the advice is materially incorrect. By all means document your 'journey', but I would hold off on the 'advice to others' until you've been there and back a few times.

 

[Fab Foodie]

Anyone mention Tribology yet?

 

[Globalti]

Wikipedia says: "Any product where one material slides or rubs over another is affected by complex tribological interactions...."

Where can I do the course?

 

[Milkfloat]

Where can I do the course?

http://www.imperial.ac.uk/tribology

 

[chriswoody]

Certainly.

The two parts that are commonly affected by seizure (not cold welding) are old quill stems and seatposts. Both these parts seize by the same mechanism because they are very similar in some ways:
1) Both are tight-fitting cylinders in tubes.
2) Both have dynamic joints. In other words, the joints can move around. The clamping mechanism is only at one end of the cyclinder, the other is free to move. In the case of the seatpost, the seatpost collar clamps it at one end, but the inserted end deep inside can still move. On the stem, the internally-expanding clamp holds it at one end, but the top can still move inside the tube.
3) Both are made from aluminium.
4) Neither have water-tight seals.

This means that with cycling, the posts and quills move. Now, should you smear grease on the interfaces, the following happens:
1) The grease is agitated (massaged) in the presence of water and that forms an emulsion.
2) An emulsion is great at preventing evaporation.
3) Water thus remains in the interface for a long time.
4) Water corrodes aluminium into Aluminium oxides.
5) The oxide molecule is much bigger than the aluminium molecule and the post seizes into place by the mechanism of swelling.
6) There is no welding or adhesion. Once the pressure is relieved, the post is freed.

Water on its own is not as damaging as water mixed with grease. The grease does not chemically alter the process but stores the water in the right place for long periods of time. Grease is NOT a waterproofing agent.

Instead of grease, a compound that does not emulsify is required, such as copper compound.

Well there you go, everyday is a school day. I'd made the painful mistake of Greasing my seat post many years back and after leaving it to fester for several years, it was stuck fast. After discovering it, it took a week and almost a whole tin of Plusgas to shift it. I knew what I'd done wrong, but not why, at least not until today. I've regularly used copper compound since that day. Thanks for that!

 

[Mile195]

So granted there's one or two errors in the post, but nothing that's going to damage anyone or their bike.
Every week I ride past scores of people on my way to work that quite obviously never lube their chain at all. If one of them comes across your post for example, then they will only benefit from it, so well done.

And indeed to have any errors pointed out is good for everyone, and the whole point of public internet forums... Although personally I might have gone for slightly gentler wording myself!

 

[Citius]

Every week I ride past scores of people on my way to work that quite obviously never lube their chain at all. If one of them comes across your post for example, then they will only benefit from it, so well done.

Unless they all start lubing their dry, rusty chains with dry lube.... urgh....

 

[Tin Pot]

Very interesting thread

Whilst not doubting the physics, if the practice is to regularly clean and regrease the seat post isn't the effect what we're after?

The grease keeps it lubricated, and where water has got in its removed periodically through the regreasing process.

I can see why grease left for years would exacerbate the problem.

 

[Dogtrousers]

On this subject (and it may be a can of worms) what kind of grease should I be using where?

The following is not "how to do it" or a recommendation, as it may be completely wrong. I use ordinary* grease for ball bearing races, and when I disassemble and reassemble old brake callipers (which I don't do very often). I have a spray tin of Halfords "Copper grease". I use this on seat posts, and put a dab onto threads when assembling them (pedals, BB's etc). I don't put anything on little nuts and bolts in mudguards.

*I have a big tub of molybdenum (I think) grease from my late father's garage. I think it has specialist automotive uses, but it's ... well ... greasy, so I use that, which may be completely wrong, I don't know. I also have a tube of lithium grease but it was expensive and it's small, so I generally can't find it anyway.

 

[Yellow Saddle]

Very interesting thread

Whilst not doubting the physics, if the practice is to regularly clean and regrease the seat post isn't the effect what we're after?

The grease keeps it lubricated, and where water has got in its removed periodically through the regreasing process.

I can see why grease left for years would exacerbate the problem.

I can't make sense of your first sentence, so can't answer it.

Lubrication is to apply something that decreases friction between two sliding surfaces. A seat post and frame doesn't need lubrication because they don't slide against each other (other than when installing). It doesn't need lubrication. However, as I explained, chemical reactions between aluminium and water causes problems - more so than between steel and water as would obviously happen on the frame side. You could remove your seatpost periodically and clean it, to catch the oxidation before it builds up, but none of us want to do that. The easiest way is apply something that does not emulsify and does not contribute to the chemical process. Copper in the compound (note, it is NOT grease) acts as a sacrificial anode that prevents the attack on the aluminium. The word sacrificial is key, it means that the copper will not last forever. You still have to remove the post/stem from time to time, clean and re-apply, but at least not as often as a dry assembly or worse, greased assembly.

As for the last statement: I thought I addressed that in my reply to Ajex. See post #7.

 

[Yellow Saddle]

On this subject (and it may be a can of worms) what kind of grease should I be using where?

The following is not "how to do it" or a recommendation, as it may be completely wrong. I use ordinary* grease for ball bearing races, and when I disassemble and reassemble old brake callipers (which I don't do very often). I have a spray tin of Halfords "Copper grease". I use this on seat posts, and put a dab onto threads when assembling them (pedals, BB's etc). I don't put anything on little nuts and bolts in mudguards.

*I have a big tub of molybdenum (I think) grease from my late father's garage. I think it has specialist automotive uses, but it's ... well ... greasy, so I use that, which may be completely wrong, I don't know. I also have a tube of lithium grease but it was expensive and it's small, so I generally can't find it anyway.

It isn't a can of worms. Bicycle lubrication is simple and primitive. There is no component that requires anything special other than ordinary grease or oil. So, whatever grease you have in the garage, that's the right one for your bike. It could be Lithium, Calcium or any such automotive grease. Note that there is no such thing as waterproof grease, even if the tin says so. Grease is NOT a waterproofing agent since it readily emulsifies with a bit of water and massaging, as you would find in a turning bearing or wiggling seatpost. Marine greases use Calcium soap (the technical term for the salt used as the grease's base) which doesn't break down as easily in salt water. This simply means it doesn't change chemically when in contact with salt water. It does not mean that it still protects from corrosion when it emulsifies. It merely retains its lubrication properties better.

From your description, you are doing it the right way. Just remember that no matter what Halfords wrote on the can, Copper Compound is not grease.

 

[Tin Pot]

I can't make sense of your first sentence, so can't answer it.

Lubrication is to apply something that decreases friction between two sliding surfaces. A seat post and frame doesn't need lubrication because they don't slide against each other (other than when installing). It doesn't need lubrication. However, as I explained, chemical reactions between aluminium and water causes problems - more so than between steel and water as would obviously happen on the frame side. You could remove your seatpost periodically and clean it, to catch the oxidation before it builds up, but none of us want to do that. The easiest way is apply something that does not emulsify and does not contribute to the chemical process. Copper in the compound (note, it is NOT grease) acts as a sacrificial anode that prevents the attack on the aluminium. The word sacrificial is key, it means that the copper will not last forever. You still have to remove the post/stem from time to time, clean and re-apply, but at least not as often as a dry assembly or worse, greased assembly.

As for the last statement: I thought I addressed that in my reply to Ajex. See post #7.

Apologies for my poor wording!

"You could remove your seatpost periodically and clean it, to catch the oxidation before it builds up, but none of us want to do that."

That's what I'm doing. I can see from your explanation why it's not the academically correct solution, but if it achieves the goal is it not an appropriate solution?

 

[Yellow Saddle]

Apologies for my poor wording!

"You could remove your seatpost periodically and clean it, to catch the oxidation before it builds up, but none of us want to do that."

That's what I'm doing. I can see from your explanation why it's not the academically correct solution, but if it achieves the goal is it not an appropriate solution?

If it works, it works.

 

[Fab Foodie]

I'm with @Yellow Saddle here. Bicycle lubrication is yet another simple subject cloaked in BS.

What is most important is that lube is present and lubing regimes should be to ensure that the lube is clean and present.
For bearings and the like, pretty much any regular grease will pretty much work. I have at least 8 bikes that all run perfectly well with Vaseline in wheel BB and headset bearings, and on screw threads. It doesn't emulsify in the true sense of the word but it can entrain water and carp if poorly sealed.
Chains get oil and depending on usage it may be thick not to be washed off in winter or thinner for summer use. WD40 will work if your top it up very frequently to ensure some is present.


So, keep it clean and lube it.