English Literature Degree Cancelled

[Ming the Merciless]

Understood, I went the HNC route, before OU.

I wasn't disagreeing with you, quite the reverse.

Same for brother who did mechanical engineering

 

[wafter]

If everyone has a degree, then, the "value" of a degree is devalued, it is simple supply and demand. That is, if we assume the "value" of a degree is to obtain more lucrative (ie more highly paid), employment.

IMHO, Education has a "value" in it's own right, regardless of the earning potential, I suppose, this is what we may call "Culture".

Again, IMHO, I think that the Government's motives MAY have been sound, but, as so often with Government Initiatives (regardless of Party), the "slippage" between idea and implementation is significant.

I certainly agree with some of that and agree that education should always have value.. however the problem is IMO that before that particular drive higher education offered services to a smaller number of people to whom it would be useful in their chosen future field of employment; and hence those smaller numbers made it more viable for such education to be publicly funded.

Now however the massively increased intake of students doing "degrees of questionable value" has made state funding even less viable; hence the grotty position new students find themselves in of having £40k's worth of debt after a three year course.

It seems that regardless of the true intentions of the individual responsible (who apparently cannot be named), what ostensibly was sold as a drive for equality by offering education to all, has actually had totally the opposite effect of making education the almost sole preserve of those who can pay for it; destroying any semblance of social mobility or meritocracy the existing system had.

My mother grew up in a council house, went to uni on the state, got a good degree, subsequently a good job and as such benefitted from the system very much as it was intended. I think had she grown up under the current regime she'd probably be on the checkouts in Asda

 

[Gwylan]

So Sheffield Hallam University ( formerly Sheffield City Polytechnic) has cancelled their Eng Lit degree course. What say you?

Well, its a jumped up Poly.

Should be teaching plumbing, welding and stuff like that.

 

[Gwylan]

What are their reasons? Not enough applicants? Rationalisation of resources? Sound business practice? A result of having to comply with the Byzantine labyrinth of government targets/quotas? Or is this thread just an excuse to have a go at this particular institution for some reason unknown to the rest of us? Where is the tick box for "I Have No Idea"? My impression (and I am no educationalist) is that in the current climate there are probably more courses available from many educational bodies than potential students following the aversive events of the Covid lockdown(s). So many questions (and question marks). I see some posters have come up with suggestions while I've been blunderingly assembling this reply.

Paying people to talk to people who are reading books about reading books.

Who is going to fix my central heating?

 

[BoldonLad]

I certainly agree with some of that and agree that education should always have value.. however the problem is IMO that before that particular drive higher education offered services to a smaller number of people to whom it would be useful in their chosen future field of employment; and hence those smaller numbers made it more viable for such education to be publicly funded.

Now however the massively increased intake of students doing "degrees of questionable value" has made state funding even less viable; hence the grotty position new students find themselves in of having £40k's worth of debt after a three year course.

It seems that regardless of the true intentions of the individual responsible (who apparently cannot be named), what ostensibly was sold as a drive for equality by offering education to all, has actually had totally the opposite effect of making education the almost sole preserve of those who can pay for it; destroying any semblance of social mobility or meritocracy the existing system had.

My mother grew up in a council house, went to uni on the state, got a good degree, subsequently a good job and as such benefitted from the system very much as it was intended. I think had she grown up under the current regime she'd probably be on the checkouts in Asda

Agree almost 100%.

Your mothers background sounds very similar to mine, except I didn't go to University, as already explained.

The only 1% I may quibble over is the £40k of debt. It may be called debt, or loan, but, in reality (IMHO) it is a tax. Those who have obtained “degrees of questionable value”, will, in all probability, never pay it back, since repayments are based on earnings, not, amount borrowed or term of loan, or, interest rate.

 

[DCLane]

Paying people to talk to people who are reading books about reading books.

Who is going to fix my central heating?

As an academic I do a LOT more than that with my students. You'd be surprised and you're welcome to come and observe me.

 

[geocycle]

@Gwylan Actually, I remember a few years ago a woman turned up to service my central heating from British Gas. She was a former student of mine with an environmental degree!

 

[Joey Shabadoo]

I'm in sales and it's one of the jobs that provides real social mobility. I know a lot of company owners, MDs etc who started off with little in the way of academic qualifications but an ability to sell. Larger companies are starting to only recruit graduates into sales roles as this meets KPIs and the like. I have two problems with this -

1) With degrees costing so much now, it's effectively limiting universities in many cases to the gullible, naive or wealthy. By only recruiting graduates, companies are closing this social mobility route and negating all the social media brownie points they're after.

2) Who goes to Uni to become a salesperson?

 

[fossyant]

Degre Apprenticeships are proving very popular, with employers and students. We're leading the path with these. From a 'jumped up Poly'.

 

[Gwylan]

I'm in sales and it's one of the jobs that provides real social mobility. I know a lot of company owners, MDs etc who started off with little in the way of academic qualifications but an ability to sell. Larger companies are starting to only recruit graduates into sales roles as this meets KPIs and the like. I have two problems with this -

1) With degrees costing so much now, it's effectively limiting universities in many cases to the gullible, naive or wealthy. By only recruiting graduates, companies are closing this social mobility route and negating all the social media brownie points they're after.

2) Who goes to Uni to become a salesperson?

Interesting.

I graduated in a thing called Aplied Science. Majored in Maths and Physics itha special interst in UV light. It was a Poly that became a college and then part of a university.

Circumstances meant I had to forego a second degree in Communications and get out and feed myself and my mother. Events and it seems a plausible interview style got me a job in two weeks, as a chemist in a big plant.

No one died on my watch, it was tricky and close sometimes. My predecessor was never mentioned in my presence. But colleages revered the lift doors that he had been blown into in a fatal explosion.
I noticed that the sales and marketing chaps seemed to have a lot more free food and never got their hands dirty.

I moved to marketing, via a stint in R&D and manufacturing. The rest is history. I retired at 50 by the way.

 

[Time Waster]

I've done two engineering degrees and to say I wasn't taught communication or other soft skills is a bit ridiculous to me. Science communication was a big thing even in my day. I don't think you can claim one type is better than another just different. All his degree courses give their graduates more than just the specialist knowledge of the subject.

Another point I'd make is the age that some kids are having to choose a direction. I went to an independent grammar school (labour controlled council shut grammars down but my school’s parents and staff chose to to private allbeit with a lot of supported places. Being an academic results focused school with expectations of university and good ones at that it did start on career directions at 14.

We had our careers advice, a computer based personality test which gave our various professional careers and dustbin man., everyone had this as a recommendation. We then looked up the recommended careers or careers we liked the sound of and chose our gcse options accordingly. We all had to do English language, maths, a modern language and one humanity course. After that we had very little choice but fill up with either science, arts or humanities. I could not do art and physics. For example because that clashed. Every year there were kids being told they couldn't do one or more subjects because of this.

We then had no choice but to either follow through I into a STEM degree or not choose university or even a levels. I think we were not alone to start the career direction that early. While not picking a uni course at 14 you're still picking a general direction to arts, humanities or STEM degrees.

 

[markemark]

A number of graduates with geology degrees go into mining.

Some people do a degree to get into mining, some people just fall into it…..

 

[Ming the Merciless]

Some people do a degree to get into mining, some people just fall into it…..

That is a hole other topic

 

[geocycle]

That is a hole other topic

Pitiful for many while others will have already addit.

 

[Ming the Merciless]

Pitiful for many while others will have already addit.

How deep can we go with this?