Energy bill increases

[gbb]

During daytime and overnight if temp (in house) drops below 7C then heating will kick in. My house is not at 20c. Since temp never drops that low at those times heating doesn’t kick in.

I assume you do the same as us, its not that you expect the temps dropping to Frost setting, rather thats effectively turning the heating off. House temps would never reach Frost setting anyway ( unless you took all the windows out ) Ours will drop to 14 at the lowest, generally 16 to 18 at the moment. At 14 in the morning its a bit too cold but we're often out to work within an hour so no point putting the heating on anyway.

 

[Deleted member 26715]

That seems a very imprecise thermostat ? My Hive stat is set at 18.5C and fires the heating up when the stat falls to 18.4C and keeps the desired temp very accurately.

Or so the system would like you to think, I would have also thought that was a very inefficient way to use it, if it is measuring to a 10th of a degree I would have thought simply walking past it a bit quick & causing a draft would get it to trip the boiler into firing, seems a bit too precise for my liking.

 

[Scaleyback]

Or so the system would like you to think, I would have also thought that was a very inefficient way to use it, if it is measuring to a 10th of a degree I would have thought simply walking past it a bit quick & causing a draft would get it to trip the boiler into firing, seems a bit too precise for my liking.

As always where you site your thermostat will to a greater or lesser degree affect it's response. Do you put it in a warm spot or a cold hall where the door opening causes the temp to fall. Or maybe where the sun can affect it. Lower down or higher up, always warmer higher up.
In the kitchen/diner where cooking heat trips the stat and turns off heat to the rest of the house. "walking past it a bit quick" Hmm !

 

[tom73]

That seems a very imprecise thermostat ? My Hive stat is set at 18.5C and fires the heating up when the stat falls to 18.4C and keeps the desired temp very accurately.

At least yours work our won't turn off the council fitted it in the coldest part of the house it never get to temp.

 

[Ming the Merciless]

I assume you do the same as us, its not that you expect the temps dropping to Frost setting, rather thats effectively turning the heating off. House temps would never reach Frost setting anyway ( unless you took all the windows out ) Ours will drop to 14 at the lowest, generally 16 to 18 at the moment. At 14 in the morning its a bit too cold but we're often out to work within an hour so no point putting the heating on anyway.

Yes exactly, it’s to stop heating kicking in at those times, but don’t expect temps to drop to the 7C frost setting.

 

[rogerzilla]

I wonder how anyone with an ASHP is going to pay the bills this winter. Using a typical UK SPF*, I make them a lot more expensive to run than a gas boiler. Has anyone got one they've run for a whole year, and what is the monthly average energy bill?

*2.45 for a reasonable installation, which probably means massive radiators or underfloor heating https://greenbusinesswatch.co.uk/do-air-source-heat-pumps-work-in-the-uk

Electricity is 3.5x the cost of gas, so the heat pump is 21% more to run assuming gas boiler efficiency of 85%...and that's before you factor in the need to keep it running all night because efficiency is hammered by trying to raise a house from cold, and the tepid hot water.

 

[fossyant]

I wonder how anyone with an ASHP is going to pay the bills this winter. Using a typical UK SPF*, I make them a lot more expensive to run than a gas boiler. Has anyone got one they've run for a whole year, and what is the monthly average energy bill?

*2.45 for a reasonable installation, which probably means massive radiators or underfloor heating https://greenbusinesswatch.co.uk/do-air-source-heat-pumps-work-in-the-uk

Electricity is 3.5x the cost of gas, so the heat pump is 21% more to run assuming gas boiler efficiency of 85%...and that's before you factor in the need to keep it running all night because efficiency is hammered by trying to raise a house from cold, and the tepid hot water.

I do wonder. My old Baxi gas boiler is 25 years old and still going, and we don't use much gas to heat the house. Come time to replace, I'll get a new equivalent for £2k-£3k fitted rather than £10k plus for a heat pump monstrocity that will sit outside. Heat pumps are using leccy which we've all been told to cut.

 

[cougie uk]

I do wonder. My old Baxi gas boiler is 25 years old and still going, and we don't use much gas to heat the house. Come time to replace, I'll get a new equivalent for £2k-£3k fitted rather than £10k plus for a heat pump monstrocity that will sit outside. Heat pumps are using leccy which we've all been told to cut.

At least we can generate electric cleanly and often in our own homes.
Good luck mining for gas.

 

[cyberknight]

bit of good news
due to the fact we get carers and disability payments for mini ck1 were just got an extra £300 this month cost of living grant

 

[mjr]

I wonder how anyone with an ASHP is going to pay the bills this winter. Using a typical UK SPF*, I make them a lot more expensive to run than a gas boiler. Has anyone got one they've run for a whole year, and what is the monthly average energy bill?

We've had ours just over a year now. Monthly average bill is a bit meaningless, what with prices having increased so massively over the year. It used about 3200kWh over the year, about half of which was in Dec-Feb. Efficiency was only just over 300% but I hope we will beat that comfortably this winter due to improved settings and controls following the annual service (by a better firm than the installer).

*2.45 for a reasonable installation, which probably means massive radiators or underfloor heating https://greenbusinesswatch.co.uk/do-air-source-heat-pumps-work-in-the-uk

Firstly, that site doesn't seem to be using the usual jargon. Seasonalised Coefficient of Performance is SCoP, not SPF. Who is the site owner APB Internet of Dublin and why the heck do you view them as some sort of authority on heat pumps?

Secondly, their measurements are over a decade old.

But most importantly, the measurements on that page are for typical UK installations with a list of cockups they actually state on that page, including incorrect sizing and not using weather-compensation controls (which are legally required in Germany AIUI).

If we only got 245% efficiency, I'd be calling in the troubleshooters. That's just not realistic for a current model.

Electricity is 3.5x the cost of gas, so the heat pump is 21% more to run assuming gas boiler efficiency of 85%...and that's before you factor in the need to keep it running all night because efficiency is hammered by trying to raise a house from cold, and the tepid hot water.

You don't need to keep it running all night: an insulated house doesn't get cold that fast, people prefer it slightly cooler to sleep and it'll warm it up easily with good performance with a suitable ramp. It easily meets NHS guidelines for hot water temperature. How old or badly set up are the heat pumps you've used?

 

[rogerzilla]

It's good to hear from someone who's actually used one for a while. 300% would just about put the running cost on a par with an A-rated gas boiler. How much did you need to do in terms of bigger rads, pipework, underfloor heating or insulation? StrIctly speaking, the often-quoted requirement for extra insulation is a cheat because you'd get the benefit with any heating system.

 

[rogerzilla]

At least we can generate electric cleanly and often in our own homes.
Good luck mining for gas.

Solar panels don't work well on cold winter nights or dull days. Or are you assuming battery storage for everyone? I think it takes about 5kW of heat to keep this house ticking over on a cold day, so 560kWh of batteries would have got me through the last foggy week. That's only about eight Teslas, I think.

 

[jowwy]

And there is were a sub forum on green energy would help…….but hey ho

 

[cougie uk]

Solar panels don't work well on cold winter nights or dull days. Or are you assuming battery storage for everyone? I think it takes about 5kW of heat to keep this house ticking over on a cold day, so 560kWh of batteries would have got me through the last foggy week. That's only about eight Teslas, I think.

Your foggy week lasts how long ??

 

[Scaleyback]

We live in the age of 'hyperbole' whether it is youth restoring face crème, EV's that run 300+ miles on a charge or Heat pumps that save you 'big bucks' The Advertising Standards Authority is a toothless bureaucracy that has long given up on the deluge of fanciful claims on media and in print. Believe nothing that is claimed and as always 'caveat emptor'
Rant over.