Electric Heating advice, please

[Scoosh]

Son Scoosh's flat needs some work on the heating.
All the blocks of flats in the area only have electricity, though gas was 'made available' to the area a few years ago (£455 + VAT to deliver to the property). He has Economy 7 and ordinary tariff electricity meters and there are old, disconnected, storage heaters in the 3 bedrooms and living room. It is a ground floor flat, double-glazed windows but not sure of the wall type - probably uninsulated cavity.

We want to do some upgrading- basically from 'student' to 'young professional' status, so a few things need to be done, mainly the heating - rooms and water.

Room Heating
The old night storage heaters do not work apparently, were disconnected ages ago, so need to go. The question is: with what to replace them ?
I've been looking at different ideas and more modern storage heaters seem to be the best option, retaining the cheaper Economy 7 tariff and permitting top-up as required, with some measure of thermostatic control also possible - eg this or this.
Are there other types I should consider - oil filled ?

Water
There is a fairly large hot water tank with an immersion heater and an electric shower. The water tank is rarely used, as it is a bit too much to heat for only kitchen sink and single basin use; there is a bath but the electric shower is much more popular.
My thoughts are to get rid of the HW tank and use an instant hot water heater like this, which can do more than 1 outlet and could be located to supply the kitchen sink and the bathroom WHB. The bath will go, being replaced with a shower cubicle with its own electric shower. Alternatively, the heater might manage the shower too.

My request to the cognoscenti of CC is for guidance and advice regarding:

• the type of heaters to use
• recommended makes of heaters
• suggested places to purchase (we're not made of money ! )
• recommended type and makes of water heaters
• recommendations for showers too !

With moving from 'student' to 'young professional', we predict that the residents will be out most of the day and in most of the evening - Scoosh-son is a night owl - so daytime heat is not much of an issue.

Relevant advice greatly appreciated - other advice possibly tolerated !

 

[subaqua]

Dimplex for heaters is a Good suggestion. I have never had problems with them .

I would suggest the one in the main room of the house has a radiant panel as a combi type as the reserve charge thing can be temramental ( not just a dimplex thing a any storage heater thing) - will require an additional 13A 24hr Supply can be set as a timer or just done manually

I would keep the tank and use the economy seven properly with a proper timer on the tank to ensure cheapest heating. decent insulation and the tank will stay warm ALL day with only a top up needed in evening . my dad lives alone and doesn't venture out in the daytime and has a hot tank of water all day .which he uses and only boosts for evening wash !

Showers- get a MIRA , again never had any problems with these and they take a lot of abuse . 9Kw is best in my opinion as 10.5Kw starts to get silly with the cabling and protective device type ( struggle with a 50A breaker for LOTS of normal consumer units but they ARE available)

where is Scoosh Jnr located ? if its withing an hour of London I can pop along and give some recommendations.


does the Supplier have "option 14" available ? for this the storage heaters are derated and operate for 9hrs overnight 10pm to 7am then again for 5 hours in daytime 11am to 4 . and that's ALL consumption at the rates . the 5hour charge is a little more expensive but the 9hr one is waaay cheaper ( well it was) it also means that you get extra heat boost for the evenings.

 

[Scoosh]

Now that's one Member I had hoped would respond !

Yes, we had considered using the tank as an 'all-day heat source' - will need to check if it has a timer clock on it.
If we do keep the tank, we could just run the shower from it too couldn't we ... or would water pressure be an issue - the tank is on the floor in an adjacent room ?

Very kind of you to offer to come an have a look - but Glasgow is a bit more than an hour away.

Option14 ? Will do some research.

Thanks very much @subaqua - may your bubbles always go upwards ...

 

[postman]

Very nice offer subaqua,take a bow.

 

[Pale Rider]

I'm no expert, but isn't gas a lot cheaper to use to heat air, water - and your dinner - than electricity?

Five hundred quid to get mains gas could 'pay for itself' in not many years in terms of the energy bill.

However, the cost of installing a gas boiler, central heating system and cooker will almost certainly be more than the cost to upgrade the electrical heating appliances.

Mmm, might be simpler to buy him a sensible jumper for Christmas.

 

[Scoosh]

@Pale Rider - yes, basic advice was to go the gas option but the sums didn't really work out, for the exact reasons you give !

I'm told there is a possibility of a jumper too ...

 

[subaqua]

Now that's one Member I had hoped would respond !

Yes, we had considered using the tank as an 'all-day heat source' - will need to check if it has a timer clock on it.
If we do keep the tank, we could just run the shower from it too - couldn't we ... or would water pressure be an issue - the tank is on the floor in an adjacent room ?

Very kind of you to offer to come an have a look - but Glasgow is a bit more than an hour away.

Option14 ? Will do some research.

Thanks very much @subaqua - may your bubbles always go upwards ...

power shower pump for using a shower from it if you want to take advantage of the off peak hot water. however that will eat the hot water easily, so I recommend a electric Shower at 9Kw just needs a cold feed from the mains. ( you wont have the head for a tank fed shower and not sure if the buiding regs in Scotland allow that.

https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Produc...Jy0nElDaj6RghZlRs9_FpPdFBnnWZ4COBuxoCK5bw_wcB is the timer to use for immersion heater control . Fit and forget basically . unless you want to boost.

You may need to involve an electrical professional as some of the work my be notifiable in Scotland under your Building regs ( or whatever they get called there) . look for one with NICEIC or SELECT accreditation as they are assessed annually on standards of work etc.

 

[Levo-Lon]

9kw showers are what i have,excelent showers..but i did need 10mm cable to run them as they are 50amp rating or 40a cant remember ,like a cooker cable etc..you will need it certificating by a sparks i think.

modern convector heaters work well and thermo control so that may be the easiest route..no economy 7 thou as it will be in use during the day..

gas and a combi boiler rads etc plus shower ,id think is a big spend? 4,5 k touch?

 

[Scoosh]

gas and a combi boiler rads etc plus shower ,id think is a big spend? 4,5 k touch?

Yes - this plus the disruption ... we probably won't have the flat long enough to reclaim the outlay, even when selling.

 

[Levo-Lon]

Go with convectors and leccy shower..it will cost a little on use but should be ok, i had them in a little flat and there good for keeping the damp at bay.. Dont get a calor gas free standing heater..lol condensation and damp mould..i found out the hard way.

 

[Scoosh]

Aye - a condenser tumble dryer is already on Mrs Scoosh's list ...

We had a tenant last year who hung his very frequent washing all over the place ... window sill in living room was soaked.

 

[subaqua]

9kw showers are what i have,excelent showers..but i did need 10mm cable to run them as they are 50amp rating or 40a cant remember ,like a cooker cable etc..you will need it certificating by a sparks i think.

modern convector heaters work well and thermo control so that may be the easiest route..no economy 7 thou as it will be in use during the day..

gas and a combi boiler rads etc plus shower ,id think is a big spend? 4,5 k touch?

in England ( Wales and Scotland have own requirements) shower install will be part P Notifiable . as is the replacement of the shower as it sits in the shaded zones shown in the approved document P from HM Govt

. A New shower install i.e. cable MCB switch etc is most definitely part P.

the storage heaters and immersion heater work is not part P notifiable UNLESS it is in a notifiable zone - Kitchen, Bathroom etc. if the cables run through bathroom - grey area and I would advise notifying to be on safe side. fines if you get caught breaching building regs can be rather large !

the new circuit for the panel heater will be notifiable IF the new circuit needs a new MCB . if it is added to an existing circuit then it is NOT notifiable. unless it is an addition to a circuit supplying equipment in the shaded zones in Part P .

9Kw shower is 39A so a 40A breaker is just on limits 45A would be better. you WILL need a 10mm sq cable to supply it . 6mm Sq WILL NOT cut the mustard . some manufacturers don't do a 45A or a 50A so you get stuffed for adding to existing Consumer unit .

Scottish rules I am not up to speed on as we don't work up there. which is why I advised SELECT or NICEIC contractor to do works. they will be up to speed on whats notifiable and what is not.

 

[subaqua]

Go with convectors and leccy shower..it will cost a little on use but should be ok, i had them in a little flat and there good for keeping the damp at bay.. Dont get a calor gas free standing heater..lol condensation and damp mould..i found out the hard way.

you didn't use a Calor heater to try and dry a room LOL

for those who don't remember organic Chemistry

when you burn propane in oxygen you get
heat, CO2 and H2O LOTS of H20.


If there was NO E7 supply I would suggest convectors , but as it sounds like they are wired for then use them . remember ALL consumption in E7 hurs is Lower price. parents used to cook things overnight and use dryer etc as it was cheaper than doing in day.

 

[Scoosh]

Thanks again @subaqua - we have a sparky in Glasweegieland to do the things for us - he does the compliance certificates and replaced the fuse panel (and no one has had a belt since ... ... that we know of ) soon after we got the flat.

 

[Globalti]

Take out all the radiators and dry-line the place. Then when he's playing GTA on his computer the 750 or so watts from the cooling fan will be enough to keep it warm. Seriously.