E-scooters to be allowed on public roads

[Electric_Andy]

Sadly the great British public.... They simply can't be trusted.

This is it in a nutshell. All the Draconian rules and regs have to be in place to stop the 50% from taking the pee, at the expense of making life difficult for the compliant and sensible 50%. Not sure what can be done

 

[mjr]

This is it in a nutshell. All the Draconian rules and regs have to be in place to stop the 50% from taking the pee, at the expense of making life difficult for the compliant and sensible 50%. Not sure what can be done

Except that's not what happened in English law, is it? First, there were people walking around and that was simple, then there were horses and they got restricted off of the smallest foot paths, then some people used horses to pull carriages and more rules were made for them, with the wider paths being formally classified as carriageways, then along come bicycles and nobody made rules for them at first, so it was left to the courts to try to figure out what to do with them and they decided to treat them basically like horses. Around the same time, locomotive engines were added to carriages without horses and parliament decided to make laws for them, partly because they were big and heavy and cutting up carriageways cornering too fast. Eventually the engines got small enough to add to bicycles and parliament decided to extend the locomotive rules to cover motorcycles.

Now we're in this mess because parliament didn't cater for low speed motors eventually getting small enough and light enough to fit to foot scooters. With hindsight, it seems obvious they would. Either way, this is parliament's mess for making short sighted rules and they should sort it out, or state that they're happy with motorised foot scooters being under the same rules as superbikes and give the regulators and police enough power and resources to deal with them.

 

[Seevio]

Can it not be implied that by making an exemption only for trials of scooter hire schemes, that parliament is effective saying that current motor vehicle laws should apply? The police currently have plenty of adequate powers if not the resources.

 

[captain nemo1701]

The film Wall-E does contain a vision of the future for those people

View attachment 761176

Wall - E is my go to example

 

[captain nemo1701]

If driven sensible and responsibly the e scooters is a wonderful alternative for those too lazy to walk.

Sadly the grest British public have proven time and time again that when an opportunity arises to pinch an inch they'll happily take a mile. They simply can't be trusted.

Indeed. I've said it before, they are the choice of the bone idle who worship at the church of zero-effort and place their own convenience ahead of the law and other's safety. Too afraid to use road, potholes, heavy traffic, plus you might just get nicked on your banned transport.....so race 'em along cyclepaths instead. I pass a bloke most days on a big escooter, one capable probably of 30-40mph on a cyclepath, full face crash helmet, mirrored goggles, thick gloves, knee/elbow pads etc. He's not going to pootle along at 15mph....What irritates me is the lazy bringing motorised traffic onto cyclepaths intended for non-motorised traffic. They don't like any physical effort, yet crave speed & convenience.

 

[Dogtrousers]

If they follow the lead of EAPCs they should only allow scoot-assist. So if you stop scooting, the motor cuts out.

 

[mjr]

Can it not be implied that by making an exemption only for trials of scooter hire schemes, that parliament is effective saying that current motor vehicle laws should apply? The police currently have plenty of adequate powers if not the resources.

I don't think it's safe to infer that because the hire scooter legalisation was described as a trial or experiment and I don't think they ever made clear if success would just mean hire scooters were legalised permanently or if it will mean all scooters get legalised.

 

[classic33]

Except that's not what happened in English law, is it? First, there were people walking around and that was simple, then there were horses and they got restricted off of the smallest foot paths, then some people used horses to pull carriages and more rules were made for them, with the wider paths being formally classified as carriageways, then along come bicycles and nobody made rules for them at first, so it was left to the courts to try to figure out what to do with them and they decided to treat them basically like horses. Around the same time, locomotive engines were added to carriages without horses and parliament decided to make laws for them, partly because they were big and heavy and cutting up carriageways cornering too fast. Eventually the engines got small enough to add to bicycles and parliament decided to extend the locomotive rules to cover motorcycles.

Now we're in this mess because parliament didn't cater for low speed motors eventually getting small enough and light enough to fit to foot scooters. With hindsight, it seems obvious they would. Either way, this is parliament's mess for making short sighted rules and they should sort it out, or state that they're happy with motorised foot scooters being under the same rules as superbikes and give the regulators and police enough power and resources to deal with them.

Not true though, is it?
Early steam vehicles were limited to walking pace on the public highway. Speed governed by the man carrying the red flag. The weight and size was a bigger problem than their "cornering too fast". Spade lug wheels did more damage than their road wheels. But changing wheels took time and not everyone bothered either buying road wheels or swapping them for short trips on roads.
And just like horse drawn wagons, they used wide wheels(Often over 12" in width) to spread the weight.

 

[Alex321]

Can it not be implied that by making an exemption only for trials of scooter hire schemes, that parliament is effective saying that current motor vehicle laws should apply? The police currently have plenty of adequate powers if not the resources.

The issue with current motor vehicle laws applying is the issue of homologation and type approval.

Without that, apart from a few exceptions, motor vehicles are not legal on the road - and they generally cannot be taxed are insured without a DVLA registration, which will not happen without that.

And they don't fit with construction and use regulations either, on such things as lights and brakes.

There are significant changes needed for them to fit within the current laws for motor vehicles.

 

[classic33]

The issue with current motor vehicle laws applying is the issue of homologation and type approval.

Without that, apart from a few exceptions, motor vehicles are not legal on the road - and they generally cannot be taxed are insured without a DVLA registration, which will not happen without that.

And they don't fit with construction and use regulations either, on such things as lights and brakes.

There are significant changes needed for them to fit within the current laws for motor vehicles.

All of that, complying with the construction and use regulations, comes down to the manufacturers of the e-scooters, not the government.
Brakes, front and rear can be fitted at the point of manufacture.
Ask yourself, why are manufacturers making them with the minimum of normal equipment found on any road vehicle. Does it really take a law to tell them what's required. When they can look at any other form of wheeled transport and see what they're using.

They can be registered, which will then allow for the insurance and VED. Those in use on the trial schemes are registered, and carry their registration number on them.

 

[Alex321]

All of that, complying with the construction and use regulations, comes down to the manufacturers of the e-scooters, not the government.
Brakes, front and rear can be fitted at the point of manufacture.
Ask yourself, why are manufacturers making them with the minimum of normal equipment found on any road vehicle. Does it really take a law to tell them what's required. When they can look at any other form of wheeled transport and see what they're using.

The manufacturers re ding that because e-scooters sell for a few hundred pounds at most, and even if they wanted to go through all the type approvals, it simply wouldn't be economical.

They can be registered, which will then allow for the insurance and VED. Those in use on the trial schemes are registered, and carry their registration number on them.

Different type of registration entirely. That is not DVLA (or VOSA) registration as a motor vehicle.

They can't be registered as a motor vehicle without type approval (or Individual Vehicle Approval is small enough numbers are produced).

 

[mustang1]

I'm all for e-scooters.

The pathetic traffic on our roads, the useless public transport with endless delays, the overstuffed tubes, the packed buses.

It doesn't bother me if people jog, walk, cycle or scoot to their destination. As long as they do so safely and without being stupid, it's fine by me. The inappropriate speed of e-bikes and e-scooters, I am totally against that. But up to 15mph looks alright to me.

 

[Drago]

I think they would be great... if people could be trusted to behave with them.

 

[classic33]

I'm all for e-scooters.

The pathetic traffic on our roads, the useless public transport with endless delays, the overstuffed tubes, the packed buses.

It doesn't bother me if people jog, walk, cycle or scoot to their destination. As long as they do so safely and without being stupid, it's fine by me. The inappropriate speed of e-bikes and e-scooters, I am totally against that. But up to 15mph looks alright to me.

So long as they do that sort of speed on the roads, not the footpaths.

 

[Dogtrousers]

I think they would be great... if people could be trusted to behave with them.

I think you would be the wisest poster on Cyclechat... If you didn't post a load of borleuques