E-scooters to be allowed on public roads

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Alex321

Guru
Location
South Wales
And a road, is a public space or not?
You decide.

I for one hope they do become legal, because the list of requirements required for legal use currently being drawn up, make the trial scheme rules tame in comparison. Testing every year, VED, driving license, test to obtain the correct category on the license. Insurance, helmet to motorcycle standards, lights...

There'll be fewer on the roads, and pavements.

Yes, a road is a public space. But not all public spaces are roads, which is why in the RTA, where the laws don't only apply on roads, it says "road or other public space".

And yes, I agree about hoping they become legal with those restrictions. So long as they don't try to piggyback similar restrictions on pedal cycles.
 

Dogtrousers

Kilometre nibbler
We seem to be getting weirdly sidetracked into the conditions under which they are/are not legal to use.

The fact is that they are not necessarily illegal to use. And they are definitely not illegal to sell.

So @captain nemo1701 's suggestion of an "import ban to strangle supply" just wouldn't fly.

We could slap a ginormous import duty on them or maybe some special tax at point of sale (not that I think we should). But ban their import? On what basis? That would be putting them on a par with illegal drugs, firearms and products of endangered species. You'd have to outlaw them first and that would be - IMO - daft.
 
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Drago

Legendary Member
iirc many, if not all road rules apply to private land that is open to the public. This will rule out private e-scooter use in a car park.

Well observed.

The meaning of 'private' with respect to the road traffic act is different to other law.

Elsewhere is means just that, private, or privately owned.

In the road traffic act the meaning is different. Privately owned land to which the public has access is still a public place. A car park, petrol station forecourt, a farmers field during a car boot sale, billing aquadrome, it doesn't matter - the rules of the road apply.
 
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captain nemo1701

captain nemo1701

Space cadet. Deck 42 Main Engineering.
Location
Bristol
We seem to be getting weirdly sidetracked into the conditions under which they are/are not legal to use.

The fact is that they are not necessarily illegal to use. And they are definitely not illegal to sell.

So @captain nemo1701 's suggestion of an "import ban to strangle supply" just wouldn't fly.

We could slap a ginormous import duty on them or maybe some special tax at point of sale (not that I think we should). But ban their import? On what basis? That would be putting them on a par with illegal drugs, firearms and products of endangered species. You'd have to outlaw them first and that would be - IMO - daft.

One of the TIER hire ones shot past me the other day on the pavement. If he'd have collided, I'd have gone flying. There is NO reason IMHO to do up to 20mph on pavements just because some humans are too darned lazy to walk.

So how about a 100% import tax, make them unfeasibly expensive?. That £500 escooter just doubled in price. And as they're motorised, a mandatory training course (££), licence (even more £££), regular testing say, every 5 years? (more ££££). I think they should be top-tier cost wise. If you crave 'convenience (ie your laziness means you need a magic platform to avoid walking but you're menacing peds & cyclists), then pay £££ for it.

Mandatory training is a must, we've just had two mono-directional segregated cycle lanes installed here in Bristol. Just wide enough for a bike, no dividing dashed line, one up, one down either side of the street and what did I witness recently?....escooter going up on the right, against traffic flow. Good job cyclists weren't coming down. Escooter riders don't seem to understand the term mono-directional, to them, 'its a space mate, I just ride in it' (I've had 'em coming towards me in LHS painted lanes...good grief!).

I should add lets restrict their speed to say, under 10mph with tough penalties for overclocking?. In fact, lets restrict them to the same speed as disabled buggies?...that should put a few off if they're deemed too slow. We've got a right problem here with yoof on souped up emotorbikes racing around, don't want to add escooters doing 40mph to that. People buy these for 'convenience' ie, no need for walking/cycling/taking a bus because I can't be bothered. Laziness should be expensive.
 
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classic33

Leg End Member
One of the TIER hire ones shot past me the other day on the pavement. If he'd have collided, I'd have gone flying. There is NO reason IMHO to do up to 20mph on pavements just because some humans are too darned lazy to walk.

So how about a 100% import tax, make them unfeasibly expensive?. That £500 escooter just doubled in price. And as they're motorised, a mandatory training course (££), licence (even more £££), regular testing say, every 5 years? (more ££££). I think they should be top-tier cost wise. If you crave 'convenience (ie your laziness means you need a magic platform to avoid walking but you're menacing peds & cyclists), then pay £££ for it.

Mandatory training is a must, we've just had two mono-directional segregated cycle lanes installed here in Bristol. Just wide enough for a bike, no dividing dashed line, one up, one down either side of the street and what did I witness recently?....escooter going up on the right, against traffic flow. Good job cyclists weren't coming down. Escooter riders don't seem to understand the term mono-directional, to them, 'its a space mate, I just ride in it' (I've had 'em coming towards me in LHS painted lanes...good grief!).

I should add lets restrict their speed to say, under 10mph with tough penalties for overclocking?. In fact, lets restrict them to the same speed as disabled buggies?...that should put a few off if they're deemed too slow. We've got a right problem here with yoof on souped up emotorbikes racing around, don't want to add escooters doing 40mph to that. People buy these for 'convenience' ie, no need for walking/cycling/taking a bus because I can't be bothered. Laziness should be expensive.
Should they become legal in the UK, they will be restricted to the same speed limits as every other motor vehicle currently on the roads.
 

PK99

Legendary Member
Location
SW19
Should they become legal in the UK, they will be restricted to the same speed limits as every other motor vehicle currently on the roads.

Different speed limits apply to different classes of motor vehicle HGV's

IN PRICIPLE, different limits COULD be applied to E-scooters.
 

a.twiddler

Veteran
All this talk of training and enforcement is a red herring, really. How many illegal e scooter riders will bother even if their category becomes legal, as they seem to be managing fine without any of that at present.

As for enforcement, police resources can't even stretch to enforcing road tax, insurance or having a driving licence for a goodly number of users of conventional vehicles, as has been pointed out ad infinitum, where they can't claim any grey areas to what the requirements might be. That ship has not only sailed, but is probably on its way back from circumnavigating the globe. Less emphasis on hypothetical new laws, more resources to enable an emphasis on enforcing what's there already would be more to the point.
 

BoldonLad

Not part of the Elite
Location
South Tyneside
All this talk of training and enforcement is a red herring, really. How many illegal e scooter riders will bother even if their category becomes legal, as they seem to be managing fine without any of that at present.

As for enforcement, police resources can't even stretch to enforcing road tax, insurance or having a driving licence for a goodly number of users of conventional vehicles, as has been pointed out ad infinitum, where they can't claim any grey areas to what the requirements might be. That ship has not only sailed, but is probably on its way back from circumnavigating the globe. Less emphasis on hypothetical new laws, more resources to enable an emphasis on enforcing what's there already would be more to the point.

+1.

That logic could also be sensibly applied to many other knew jerk reactions and new laws
 
Just been to Manchester for a day or so

Lots more scooters than I am used to round here - OK mostly food delivery - but lots of people just travelling somewhere

didn't see anyone doing anything silly or dangerous or causing a problem

same applies to cyclists actually

but anyway - enforcement is fine by me but I blowed if I can see a way to do it with the current Police budgets and manpower - most riding illegal ones (currently all the privately owned ones) would just wizz of down a side street so most would be missed except for the nice last abiding (mostly) people who are the ones that don;t cause any problems
 

Jenkins

Legendary Member
Location
Felixstowe
So how about a 100% import tax, make them unfeasibly expensive?. That £500 escooter just doubled in price. And as they're motorised, a mandatory training course (££), licence (even more £££), regular testing say, every 5 years? (more ££££). I think they should be top-tier cost wise. If you crave 'convenience (ie your laziness means you need a magic platform to avoid walking but you're menacing peds & cyclists), then pay £££ for it.
No it doesn't. Import tax is paid on the invoice value & shipping costs which may only be £200 for a scoooter that retails at £500. The additional tax is therefore only £240 (including VAT on the duty) so the price increase would only be 50% plus any additional profit margin the retailer may add on.
 
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