E Scooters > on the road

[classic33]

They've been on sale at least 20 years and pretty reliable for at least 6 or 7. The police have held crackdowns for 4. How long does it take to update the laws? And our lot have the nerve to call France's governance sclerotic!

Even ten years ago, the range and speed of the ones sold was nowhere near that of todays e-scooters. And illegal on the roads back then. Same requirements to make their use legal, so little change there.
What has changed is that companies/individuals have seen a way of making money, with very little risk to themselves. This has brought about an increase in the number of illegal ones in use on the road.

With electric vehicle use getting more exposure, they'll be there, in the spotlight as a personal electric means of transport. Clean, green and quiet to boot, until they get dumped, then they cease to be clean n' green. With the increasing calls for current electric vehicles to be making some noise on safety grounds, how long will they remain quiet.

When in France, only we're not in France, and the laws in this country have put them firmly in the motorised vehicle section.

 

[DRM]

It doesn’t help that it’s not illegal to sell one, but it’s illegal to use one privately, whilst the target customers don’t give two hoots about the legality of using them

 

[Dogtrousers]

It doesn’t help that it’s not illegal to sell one, but it’s illegal to use one privately, whilst the target customers don’t give two hoots about the legality of using them

This. It bothers me that things like these, that have no legal practical use whatsoever are legally on sale.

https://kaabouk.com/products/kaabo-wolf-warrior-11 max speed 80 km/h
https://www.dualtron-uk.com/products/dualtron-thunder-2 max speed 100 km/h

It bothers me less that people are buzzing* around on low powered ones.

*(silently - if you can buzz silently)

 

[KnittyNorah]

I can see perfectly clearly that there are several situations in which a speed-and-power-limited e-scooter might be both useful AND legal - such as within private, access-restricted factory or other business sites which cover a very wide area, private/EH/NT country park type places which have surfaced paths and tracks and where there are lengthy distances to be covered, and similar locations.
Only approved and/or location-specific scooters, with appropriate speed controls and wheel-locks which make them useless outside the boundaries, would probably be needed in order to avoid a 'free-for-all'. Because of their nature, such places would be relatively easy to 'police' by the already-employed security and other staff, and regulations enforced about appropriate usage.

 

[newfhouse]

Is there anyone here that has one or has ridden one? I imagine you have to have your wits about you on potholed roads.

 

[alex_cycles]

Is there anyone here that has one or has ridden one? I imagine you have to have your wits about you on potholed roads.

I'd love one. They look like lots of fun, but to my mind there's no point in owning one if they're illegal to use. Not tried a hire one though as I generally try to avoid towns. If responsibly used I think they could be an excellent local transport solution (rather like bikes and e-bikes). We would need to change our attitudes towards each other and towards shared space so they were more like what they have in Holland.

I think someone else nailed it earlier when saying that dinging your bell needs to be seen as "I'm here" rather than "get out the way". I find myself reluctant to use cycle paths because of clueless pedestrians with headphones and dog-walkers. But it seems that instead of nudging us towards "thinking about each other's welfare" society is going the opposite way and permitting people to use these scooters and flout the law. (That's what I object to, not the scooters themselves.)

 

[Profpointy]

I'm pretty relaxed about e-scooters as recklessness is pretty much self policing. ie if you ride like a twat you're more likely to hurt yourself pdq than harm anyone else. OK granted you could hurt a pedestrian but most reckless riders will have been "punished" by coming a cropper before hurting anyone else.

It's all a bit "down with this sort of thing"

 

[Dogtrousers]

Careful now

 

[DRM]

This. It bothers me that things like these, that have no legal practical use whatsoever are legally on sale.

https://kaabouk.com/products/kaabo-wolf-warrior-11 max speed 80 km/h
https://www.dualtron-uk.com/products/dualtron-thunder-2 max speed 100 km/h

It bothers me less that people are buzzing* around on low powered ones.

*(silently - if you can buzz silently)

I don’t understand why the seller isn’t responsible for registering the thing when you buy it, it’s quite hard to buy a motor vehicle of any type without the dealer registering, taxing and usually now giving you a weeks free insurance to get home legally, with e-scooters they just flog you the thing and let you get on with it

 

[Rusty Nails]

You put my concerns better than I could. Basically I know there is so much form-filling shenanigans involved with buying and running a car, and I'd imagine a motorbike too. These are effectively motorbikes - so why no shenanigans?

What form-filling do you need to buy an e-scooters, or an e-bike? They are not taxed or licensed and do not require a test to be passed.

Are you arguing for licensing e-scooters and e-bikes?

 

[classic33]

What form-filling do you need to buy an e-scooters, or an e-bike? They are not taxed or licensed and do not require a test to be passed.

Are you arguing for licensing e-scooters and e-bikes?

They are already a requirement.
"You must have the category Q entitlement on your driving licence to use an e-scooter."

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/e-scooter-trials-guidance-for-users

 

[Rusty Nails]

They are capable of 60mph, (see link above for what is being discussed) - so yes.

Ebikes are irrelevant to the subject.

Granted they are not the direct subject of the thread, but they are very relevant in that stricter rules, possibly licencing, would inevitably spread beyond scooters to bikes.

They are both normally manually powered but can be obtained in electric powered form, can both be treated to exceed sensible speeds, can be used by inexperienced kids and adults, and can be ridden on public roads and the pavements.

 

[Rusty Nails]

They are already a requirement.
"You must have the category Q entitlement on your driving licence to use an e-scooter."

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/e-scooter-trials-guidance-for-users

This is as part of the approval of trial rental schemes. The vast majority , virtually all, scooters on the roads are not part of a trial and are not covered by these rules.

I cannot see a single reason why e-scooters should be treated in this way and e-bikes not, and I believe it will be the start down a slippery slope.

Personally speaking, if it were not for the risk of regulation for pushbikes, I would not mind if both were subject to the same requirements.

 

[classic33]

This is as part of the approval of trial rental schemes. The vast majority , virtually all, scooters on the roads are not part of a trial and are not covered by these rules.

I cannot see a single reason why e-scooters should be treated in this way and e-bikes not, and I believe it will be the start down a slippery slope.

Personally speaking, if it were not for the risk of regulation for pushbikes, I would not mind if both were subject to the same requirements.

If you want to use a private electric scooter on the road, at present, then it has to have a current MOT, insurance, registration and you are required to have a license to drive.

The problem, that may be passed on, is that it might impact on e-assist cycles. We already have electric bikes and mopeds, battery power replacing the IC engine on them. Similar regulations already cover their use.

 

[alex_cycles]

I cannot see a single reason why e-scooters should be treated in this way and e-bikes not, and I believe it will be the start down a slippery slope.

Very simple really. e-bikes (pedelecs?) are exempt from being classed as motor vehicles because they are e-assist and only powered when you are pedalling. That's not the case with e-scooters. If your e-bike power works without pedalling it's an electric motorbike and will be treated as a motorbike.

Additionally with road-legal e-bikes the power cuts out once you go above 15.5mph. (I've had some fun on my road bike trying to stay ahead of ebikers by riding at 16mph+ )