Dutch Sustainable Safety in action

[GrumpyGregry]

I have to say your own mentality comes over in this thread as being remarkably similar to CEGB, only at opposite ends of the spectrum.

Anyway, it is good to see you are not entirely opposed to segregation in some situations.

Stop kidding yourselves that integrationists would not like a quality network of off-road cycle routes.

 

[Glow worm]

BTW, when are you going back?

Maybe Amsterdam next spring with luck. Mrs G will Squeezy Jet it (shudder) and I'll bike it from the Hook. At least I'll get a more comfortable seat for the trip!

 

[Glow worm]

http://www.cyclechat.net/threads/exhibition-road.92991/

And, sadly, it's come in for some serious sniping from the CEGBeebies. I like it, but, more to the point, I think it's great that it was tried out.

Oh I missed that. Looks pretty radical, I must venture out that way next time in down there. I still don't know what CEGB stands for (Hereabouts CGB is the Cambridge Guided Busway!) but assuming you mean cylcists who prefer the Dutch model, I can't see too many reasons for complaint. Maybe it's just cos it's fairly new and takes some getting used to while all users get their heads around it.

 

[GrasB]

No. But I recently had a car driver stop and ask me if I was ok, did I need a hand, did I have all the tools I needed.

The driver was a cyclist too. Most drivers in Holland are cyclists too.

But what you have to understand is that the Dutch see cycling as we see walking, something everyone does because it's the norm. Where as cycling in the UK is seen as something a little different. It's a different mindset.

 

[GrumpyGregry]

But what you have to understand is that the Dutch see cycling as we see walking, something everyone does because it's the norm. Where as cycling in the UK is seen as something a little different. It's a different mindset.

It's a different country. Different culture, different legal system, different population density, different social history, different geography, et cetera. Understanding how the Dutch see cycling is of very limited utility on the UK.

Better we understand how the British see cycling and figure out what, if anything, we can do to change that thinking.

Odd that the biggest boost given to cycling in London in recent years was a bunch of terrorists, and a Tory fop. Gotta love the bomb dodgers and Boris.

 

[GrumpyGregry]

Oh I missed that. Looks pretty radical, I must venture out that way next time in down there. I still don't know what CEGB stands for (Hereabouts CGB is the Cambridge Guided Busway!) but assuming you mean cylcists who prefer the Dutch model, I can't see too many reasons for complaint. Maybe it's just cos it's fairly new and takes some getting used to while all users get their heads around it.

Cycling Embassy of Great Britain

and their manifesto (with my comments in italics)

We, the Cycling Embassy of Great Britain represent everyone, young or old, fit or not, who wishes to use their bike – and by bike we mean any form of cycle including tricycles, handcycles, recumbents, cargo bikes or tandems – as transport. We believe that everyone – be they five or ninety-five – should have the freedom to go about their business by bike without fear or harassment.

Not much to disagree with there...

We believe that Britain’s planning and transport policies to date have served to confine cycling only to the quick and the brave, leaving the rest of us behind. Promoting cycling without tackling this will not raise cycling levels significantly.

Sadly all too true...

We believe that current rates of cycling in this country are too low, that targets to increase them are miserably un-ambitious and that a decent rate of cycling should be nearer 30 or 40% of all journeys

Certainly rates are too low. It would be churlish to quibble over exactly what a decent target is...

We believe that this can only be achieved by the provision of dedicated safe cycle infrastructure, in line with the best practice found around the world.

Oh, dear me, no.

 

[dellzeqq]

But what you have to understand is that the Dutch see cycling as we see walking, something everyone does because it's the norm. Where as cycling in the UK is seen as something a little different. It's a different mindset.

it all depends where you are in the UK - in the southeast outside of London cycling may be seen as 'different' or a threat, but in my part of London, and in other parts besides it's completely normal.

And, while there are clearly differences between Newmarket on the one hand and London on the other - if bikes outnumber private cars on some of the main roads here without cycle paths, what lesson do you think we should learn from that?

 

[GrasB]

And, while there are clearly differences between Newmarket on the one hand and London on the other - if bikes outnumber private cars on some of the main roads here without cycle paths, what lesson do you think we should learn from that?

Things are going well. This is all well & good however is misses the point of my original post. Which was would a motorist in the UK ask if you were okay for waiting for cars to pass when I had priority?

 

[dellzeqq]

Things are going well. This is all well & good however is misses the point of my original post. Which was would a motorist in the UK ask if you were okay for waiting for cars to pass when I had priority?

well, sorry, but 30 million people have driving licenses in this country. So there might be 30 million different answers

 

[Prestwick]

Would it be OT to mention the cycling infrastructure in and around Copenhagen?

Still segregated but better use of land than basically annexing almost 50-70m worth of land like in that Dutch example video on page 1. Also the use of integrated traffic lights on Copenhagen's routes soothe friction with car drivers.

BUT. While the infrastructure is top notch the cyclists in Copenhagen are an absolute nightmare. Each of them a candidate for silly cyclists, many riding as slowly as possible in bikes worth less than a Boris bike, with little or no situational awareness (most I saw rarely took the time to look about choosing to stare dead ahead and pray when crossing intersections), with no safety or fluorescent gear and who have no idea how to hand signal.

Maybe we could do a deal: if Denmark come and install their system in London we can go to Copenhagen and teach them all how to cycle properly!

Okay rant over. My point is that our cycling style and Denmark's infrastructure would be a great fit.

EDIT: also to counter the "on the continent, cycling is like walking" argument, talk to my Danish friends about cyclists and the familiar motorist complaints come creeping out: "never look before turning, always block the way, why can't they go on the pavement/cycle lanes..." same divide between cyclist and motorist, different country.

 

[snorri]

, with no safety or fluorescent gear

Good to hear they're getting something right..