Drop bar conversion - advice please

[redjedi]

Campag 10 speed ergos work perfectly with Shimano 8-speed cassettes and derailleurs- I have run my tourer like this with no trouble for several years. It's a mixed marriage that actually works.

Chris Juden agrees with me.

No shiftmate needed - it just happens that the spacing of the two systems is exactly the same.

I've also used Xenon and Veloce ergos, both with Shimano front derailleurs. Two minor problems - one in that a baggage handler fiddled with the front ergo at Mombassa airport and broke a couple of teeth of the ratchet. The other was when in hot South Africa, the gear paddle broke off a front ergo. I suspect that this was because a stiff cable combined with a strong spring on the derailleur was putting too much strain on the paddle when changing. Both Xenon and Veloce have GRP paddles; I don't know about other Campag ergos.

I say go for it. Best of both worlds.

Thanks for confirming the match.

Which are the better of the Xenon and Veloce?
I've seen a few places mention that the Xenons are discontinued.

Can you recommend a decent but cheapish rear dereilleur?

 

[Amanda P]

I'm no Campag expert, but as far as I can tell Xenon and Veloce are identical except that Xenon has a glass-reinforced plastic brake lever and Veloce has a black alloy one. Both have plastic gear paddles. I think they are internally identical, but I haven't checked.

When I came to buy another pair of Xenons for Mrs Uncle Phil a couple of months ago I couldn't find any.

For a derailleur at a similar level of quality to Veloce, I'd look at maybe 105.

 

[HLaB]

What didn't you like about the Sora shifters?

There not as comfortable as the campi Veloce on my summer bike or the 105's I've ridden on other bikes. Plus also I can't change up a gear (flick the thumb shifter) when I'm on the drops, only when on the hoods; with campi and 105s you can. From what I can tell these are common problems.

 

[redjedi]

For a derailleur at a similar level of quality to Veloce, I'd look at maybe 105.

Since the lever is what controls the cable pull, do I need to stick with Shim or can I use a Campag one?

The 105 derailleur is described as a 9/10 speed. Will that make any difference to the cable pull. I assume it wouldn't.
I guess I would have to swap the chain for a 9 speed rather than the 8 spd I have now.

Would I need a long cage to go with the triple (52/42/30)? Cassette is 11-28.

 

[Amanda P]

You're plumbing the very depths of my knowledge!

The Campag lever sets the cable pull, as you say, so I would imagine you could use a Campag derailleur with the Shimano 8 speed cassette - but I've never tried so don't blame me if it doesn't work. Check out what the great Mr Juden has to say, and check with Sheldon too.

I don't think you'll have a problem using a 105 derailleur with 8 speed chain (I've done this and found it works), but it's possible the chain will drag annoyingly on the sides of the derailleur cage in extreme sprocket/chainring combinations. A nine speed chain, being narrower, is unlikely to do this, but it seems a shame to go for a less robust chain if you don't have to. You could try with your existing 8 speed chain and switch to nine speed chain if it's too noisy.

I think you'll manage with a short cage 105 rear derailleur- Mrs Uncle Phil has a setup with a total 29 tooth difference and a medium cage is fine as long as she avoids trying to use the big ring and biggest sprocket at the same time (which is a silly thing to do anyway). On an identical bike, I use a long cage 105 and can use any combination.

Read up Sheldon and Juden anyway - you'll learn lots. Or hang on and folk like Mickle and Spandex will chip in and correct me...

 

[redjedi]

Thanks for all your help Uncle Phil, it is much appreciated. It's especially useful knowing that you have a similar setup already.

I think I'll get stick with the Shim rear der'l (I've typed that word so many times I'm bored of it) as I know that will work.

So my list is now

Campag Veloce Ergo levers
Shimano 105 der'l
drop bars - I'll stop by Evans and try a few sizes out.
Bar tape - just have to decide on colour. Black to play safe or Celeste
Cables come with shifters
Cable cutters.
electrical tape

Have I forgotten anything?

 

[HLaB]

So my list is now

Campag Veloce Ergo levers
Shimano 105 der'l
drop bars - I'll stop by Evans and try a few sizes out.
Bar tape - just have to decide on colour. Black to play safe or Celeste
Cables come with shifters
Cable cutters.
electrical tape

Have I forgotten anything?

In line cable ajdusters, a pair for the gear cables and a pair for the brake cables.

And at a later date to improve my braking performance (v brakes in my case) I added a couple of travel agents.

Good luck

 

[andrew_s]

Don't save money by getting old stock Veloce Quickshift Ergos - go for current (note "front derailleur micro-adjustment possibility" in the decription).

For front shifting, Veloce QS dispensed with the micro ratchet and went to a coarse ratchet that only gives about 4 positions for the front mech (sort of indexed like Shimano triples) . That means that on a non-matched front mech you may find that the available positions don't match up with what is required and you get a lot of noise from the chain dragging past the front mech cage.

Pre-2006 Ergos are all OK
QS Record and Chorus have the micro-ratchet and are OK
The micro-ratchet was reintroduced on current Ultrashift Ergos and that they are all OK.

 

[redjedi]

Thanks for pointing that out. That was one of the main reasons for going with the Campag. Ultrashift it is.

Though I may need to downgrade the RD to a Tiagra one. But I am going out drinking tonight, so it may loosen my purse strings a bit


(ps my purse doesn't actually have strings.....it has a little clip )

 

[ausalex]

I'm thinking of doing the same to my Trek 7.3. If I go down the Campag route will it work with the Shimano front triple or am I better off just trying to find a set of Shimano 8x3 shifters on ebay?

 

[andrew_s]

It should all be fine so long as you get one of the micro-ratchet 10-speed Ergos.
The micro-ratchet means you can use pretty much any front mech.
At the rear, 10-speed Ergos work perfectly with a Shimano mech and a Shimano 8-speed cassette. You can also use a 9-speed cassette if you adjust the cable clamp at the rear mech as detailed on the Chris Juden page Uncle Phil linked to above.
You will have to make sure the limit stops on the rear mech are properly set, otherwise the extra clicks will allow you to shift off the end of the cassette.

As a bonus, front Ergos are much easier to set up than Shimano triple.

 

[redjedi]

I'm now in possession one set of Veloce Ultra shift levers and a new rear derailleur.

I want to put them on now, but I haven't got the bars yet

I've decided to get the bars, tape and tools from my LBS. Always good to throw a bit of money their way, and they might be willing to help me with the fine tuning.

I'm also going to take a monday off so I've got time to fit them over a weekend and then take it for a test run on Monday.

 

[Amanda P]

You may need a roll of what we used to call insulting tape.

Use a couple of strips of this to hold the cables in place on the bars before you apply the handlebar tape.

The bits of sticky tape that come with handlebar tape to secure the ends are usually too short and not sticky enough for the job (in my experience). So buy insulting tape in a suitable colour so that you can use that to secure the ends of the handlebar tape.

I think there was a thread once about exactly how to apply handlebar tape - might be worth searching for that. There are lots of ways to do it wrong. Some of them will only cause roadies to sneer at you (not that they sometimes need any extra reasons). Some of them will cause the tape to ruck up under your hands.

 

[Sittingduck]

Nice redjedi

My groupset arrived yesterday and last night I put on the shifters, derailleurs and brakes. I also fitted the front brake cable. Taped it to the bard with 2 small bits of electricians tape as described by Uncle Phil.

This evening I will be doing the ramaining 3 cables and taping the bars
Just need them wheels & the stem to arrive now... oh and my BB tool.

Good luck with it!

 

[redjedi]

I am going to follow these instructions for taping the bars

(I'll also have a second set of tape ready for when I mess up on the first attempt)

http://bicycletutor.com/drop-handlebar-tape/

There are lots of ways to do it wrong. Some of them will only cause roadies to sneer at you (not that they sometimes need any extra reasons).

I better get it right then, I want to be part of the "in" crowd.