Doping git thread

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Pro Tour Punditry

Pro Tour Punditry

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psmiffy said:
Im sure better minds than mine are working to try to find solutions
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I think better minds than yours are thinking of more ways to avoid detection. And are succeeding.

As I have previously posted, it's time to re-think the approach to doping and move it away from "science"
 
Flying_Monkey

Flying_Monkey

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Marmion said:
I think better minds than yours are thinking of more ways to avoid detection. And are succeeding.

As I have previously posted, it's time to re-think the approach to doping and move it away from "science"
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Unfortunately that still sounds as silly as when you first posted it. The best thing in terms of testing would actually be to use the best tests that exist. The fact is that no sports do. The second thing would be to improve the biological passport, which is a very good idea not yet well enough implemented, and firm up the rules surrounding it. The third thing would be to integrate all the MPCC rules into UCI practice, make them the law. There are others...
 
smutchin

smutchin

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I'm not sure I really understand what you mean by an "ethical" approach to anti-doping, @Marmion, but it sounds a bit like the declaration that teams signed post-Festina in 1999.

Ask Christophe Bassons how effective that was.
 
Pro Tour Punditry

Pro Tour Punditry

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smutchin said:
I'm not sure I really understand what you mean by an "ethical" approach to anti-doping, @Marmion, but it sounds a bit like the declaration that teams signed post-Festina in 1999.

Ask Christophe Bassons how effective that was.
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I don't think there was a particularly strong enforcement approach taken. ;)

As I posted earlier, there needs to be a framework and regulation of that framework; I'm not going to come up with what that looks like, as I sit here eating my pies and drinking my beer, but most professions can make it work - I reckon sport could do likewise. If they could be arsed. I don't think they can tho.
 
smutchin

smutchin

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There was plenty of "enforcement" on stage 10 of the 1999 TdF - shamefully so.

I do think much has changed for the better since then - it's easier for individuals to speak out against doping, for example - but there's clearly still a two-speed peloton (more so in some races than others, perhaps).
 
400bhp

400bhp

Guru
Flying_Monkey said:
Unfortunately that still sounds as silly as when you first posted it. The best thing in terms of testing would actually be to use the best tests that exist. The fact is that no sports do. The second thing would be to improve the biological passport, which is a very good idea not yet well enough implemented, and firm up the rules surrounding it. The third thing would be to integrate all the MPCC rules into UCI practice, make them the law. There are others...
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And the fourth thing would be to have much harsher penalties.
 
Flying_Monkey

Flying_Monkey

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Marmion said:
I don't think there was a particularly strong enforcement approach taken. ;)

As I posted earlier, there needs to be a framework and regulation of that framework; I'm not going to come up with what that looks like, as I sit here eating my pies and drinking my beer, but most professions can make it work - I reckon sport could do likewise. If they could be arsed. I don't think they can tho.
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If you have an ethical framework that needs enforcing, then you have to have standards of evidence, bases for legal challenge etc., and I'm pretty sure that a lot of this will come down to science. I'm not against an ethical framework, but you have to remember that the core of the current system is already an ethical one - the basic understanding that riders will not cheat. The Olympic code, which WADA incorporated and extended is exactly this.
 
Pro Tour Punditry

Pro Tour Punditry

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Flying_Monkey said:
...and I'm pretty sure that a lot of this will come down to science.
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A lot of it will still come down to science, but at present it is 100% down to science (as far as I can tell anyway).

The USADA case against Armstrong succeeded where science failed. My memory fails me as to what the differences in terms of "burden of proof" were - I do remember at the time when the case was "dropped" thinking that the decision may have been due to seeing the USADA resolving the matter a lot quicker, and more successfully, which turned out to be the case.

As I have previously posted I don't have a framework to hand which could be adopted; I just think the approach needs to be different.
 
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Pro Tour Punditry

Pro Tour Punditry

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rich p said:
Nicki Sorensen fesses up to doping prior to the Danish report's release.
No surprise there but another doper in the role of a DS:rolleyes:
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It's astounding how many pros doped "at the start" of their careers "many years ago" and then stopped doing it, eh?
Cannae by that good if they stop doing it when they start to move up the pro ranks and winning. If it was more than 10 years ago as Sorensen claims he then managed to win the Danish road championship 3 times unaided - what a star.
 
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robertob

robertob

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Location
Dublin
Marmion said:
It's astounding how many pros doped "at the start" of their careers "many years ago" and then stopped doing it, eh?
Cannae by that good if they stop doing it when they start to move up the pro ranks and winning. If it was more than 10 years ago as Sorensen claims he then managed to win the Danish road championship 3 times unaided - what a star.
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That's is quite natural. With experience and age the human become wiser, more mature and of course mentally stronger. You understand the world you live in so much better. This is when you realize your love for the sport is all that matters and you don't need to rely on prohibited substances any longer - you understand winning at all costs isn't cool. You're doped by pure love from now on - by pure love for what you're doing. And because you love it so much you can push yourself so much harder, and you unlock suddenly additional watts. No need for cortisone or stuff like that as well. Because you really love it you're fasting now in order to shed tons of weight in a very short amount of time. Your love for doing it clean is fuelling you.
 
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