Does anyone else hate Shi**no as much as I do?

[fritz katzenjammer]

I work at a bike shop and am building a lot of bikes with Shimano’s new Cues driveline and it really can be crap. Why their new system, designed to be the new standard in mid range working bike drivelines, should be inferior to my 70s Suntour or Campy stuff is a total mystery. I have a mid nineties Nishiki mountain bike with Shimano STX on it and it’s light years ahead of Cues. There really is no excuse for substandard equipment hitting the market these days…

unless you just don’t care about your customers that is.

Gratuitous Suntour Cyclone porn shot here for no other reason than its beauty…

 

[Jameshow]

I work at a bike shop and am building a lot of bikes with Shimano’s new Cues driveline and it really can be crap. Why their new system, designed to be the new standard in mid range working bike drivelines, should be inferior to my 70s Suntour or Campy stuff is a total mystery. I have a mid nineties Nishiki mountain bike with Shimano STX on it and it’s light years ahead of Cues. There really is no excuse for substandard equipment hitting the market these days…

unless you just don’t care about your customers that is.

Gratuitous Suntour Cyclone porn shot here for no other reason than its beauty…

View attachment 744419

Rubbish in what way.. 🤔

 

[slowmotion]

After my other (Shimano 105) bike was stolen, I've been on a Campagnolo Veloce bike. The thumb shifters are totally awesome.

I've got a brand new CS-5700 11-28 cassette from Spa Cycles that never got installed.

Make me an offer.

 

[fritz katzenjammer]

Rubbish in what way.. 🤔

Very notchy and very slow to shift both up and down. How well they work varies a lot depending on the application as well.

When we started getting bikes with them I found them so poor that I took the time to take the factory Shimano training to see if I was missing anything on their set-up, figuring that they can’t be all that bad, I must be setting them up wrong. Nope, outside of setting the B adjustment up a bit tight I was setting them up perfectly. They just aren’t as good as a Tourney! It’s really sad, I can take any one of the derailleurs this is replacing and make it work perfectly with no effort, even after some kid has bent the derailleur and hanger into a friggin pretzel they work better than a new Cues after you bend them straight.

The B adjustment is set using marks on the back of the derailleur, it’s something that should have happened years ago and the one good thing about Cues.

 

[cyberknight]

Very notchy and very slow to shift both up and down. How well they work varies a lot depending on the application as well.

When we started getting bikes with them I found them so poor that I took the time to take the factory Shimano training to see if I was missing anything on their set-up, figuring that they can’t be all that bad, I must be setting them up wrong. Nope, outside of setting the B adjustment up a bit tight I was setting them up perfectly. They just aren’t as good as a Tourney! It’s really sad, I can take any one of the derailleurs this is replacing and make it work perfectly with no effort, even after some kid has bent the derailleur and hanger into a friggin pretzel they work better than a new Cues after you bend them straight.

The B adjustment is set using marks on the back of the derailleur, it’s something that should have happened years ago and the one good thing about Cues.

interesting , have you much experience with the "third" party stuff like sensah / ltwoo ? from the sound of it shimano has decided anything below 105 is not worth their attention so it lumps everything else into a cross compatible system that saves them money by making one system that works across them all but not very well .I have claris on my commuter abd it just works even though it may not be as quick as the higher stuff it certainly works as well as the old 10 speed 105 on the retro build .
Its like the disc only systems , nowt wrong with disc and i am not even going to start a discussion as its been covered enough but lack of support seems like another way to drive people who cant upgrade to another make that will .
Will this be enough to put people off cycling or will they accept the shifting is supposed to be like that ?

 

[Jameshow]

Very notchy and very slow to shift both up and down. How well they work varies a lot depending on the application as well.

When we started getting bikes with them I found them so poor that I took the time to take the factory Shimano training to see if I was missing anything on their set-up, figuring that they can’t be all that bad, I must be setting them up wrong. Nope, outside of setting the B adjustment up a bit tight I was setting them up perfectly. They just aren’t as good as a Tourney! It’s really sad, I can take any one of the derailleurs this is replacing and make it work perfectly with no effort, even after some kid has bent the derailleur and hanger into a friggin pretzel they work better than a new Cues after you bend them straight.

The B adjustment is set using marks on the back of the derailleur, it’s something that should have happened years ago and the one good thing about Cues.

That crazy as claris rd work fine so why didn't they just use that?

 

[rogerzilla]

I think there's a deliberate enshittification of the cheaper ranges. The discontinuation of the UN-55 was a prime example. Yes, you can still buy our cheaper stuff, but it won't last long or work very well.

In the olden days, the difference between 105 - which was a lot more affordable than it is now - and the higher groups was mainly weight, sometimes an extra cog, and a degree of durability that was irrelevant unless you were racing every weekend. It all worked just as well.

 

[raleighnut]

I think there's a deliberate enshittification of the cheaper ranges. The discontinuation of the UN-55 was a prime example. Yes, you can still buy our cheaper stuff, but it won't last long or work very well.

In the olden days, the difference between 105 - which was a lot more affordable than it is now - and the higher groups was mainly weight, sometimes an extra cog, and a degree of durability that was irrelevant unless you were racing every weekend. It all worked just as well.

105 has been my 'go to' level of kit for years, best 'bang for the buck' range of Shimano kit but all this 11 and 12 speed is way beyond anything I will ever need, narrower chains that wear out quicker, more expensive cassettes and hydraulic disc brakes, not for this cyclist.

I think a lot of it is down to the Japanese philosophy on innovation and 'improvement' but really it is just to chisel more money out of consumers with a lot of things being non-repairable.
Not just Bikes though HiFi suffers the same problems with 'mega watt' Amps that cannot be repaired, CD players that last just long enough to exceed the guarantee period and are then scrap, the list goes on but so would this post if I continued.

 

[FishFright]

Generally, even the cheapest Shimano stuff works well and can be inexpensive. My only real criticism is their constant push for expensive "improvements" that many cyclists don't want or need, and the dropping of tried-and-tested stuff. They used to be good at backwards compatibility, but not so much now. Anyone who bought 10-speed Di2 will know what I mean.

I don't use Di2 but the dropping of good square taper BBs (because they want us to use HT2) and, 30 years ago, the dropping of above-the-bar thumbshifters (because they wanted us to use RapidFire) are examples that annoyed me.

None of this will bother MAMILs who buy a new bike every year or two.

If cyclists don't want or need an improvement then it wouldn't sell and would be dropped .
But as they mostly do sell well therefore the people buying them must not be true cyclists but some other lesser species.

 

[raleighnut]

If cyclists don't want or need an improvement then it wouldn't sell and would be dropped .
But as they mostly do sell well therefore the people buying them must not be true cyclists but some other lesser species.

Weekend Warriors ?

I've owned no other vehicles since 1985, if I want to go anywhere it's the bike/trike or public transport/taxi

 

[FishFright]

Weekend Warriors ?

I've owned no other vehicles since 1985, if I want to go anywhere it's the bike/trike or public transport/taxi

I owned a small motorbike at 17 which I decided was not for me, since then I've always pedalled.

 

[cyberknight]

I owned a small motorbike at 17 which I decided was not for me, since then I've always pedalled.

i always wanted to have a motorcycle as a yoof but was banned at home from taking the test and i still havent got round to it,the closest i got was a couple of 50 cc chicken chasers via the car licence .

 

[screenman]

Weekend Warriors ?

I've owned no other vehicles since 1985, if I want to go anywhere it's the bike/trike or public transport/taxi

Maybe during the week, the people who only ride at weekends are working hard to provide for their families; maybe they, like myself, have wanted to provide well for their families; the term "weekend warrior" is offensive to me.

 

[raleighnut]

Maybe during the week, the people who only ride at weekends are working hard to provide for their families; maybe they, like myself, have wanted to provide well for their families; the term "weekend warrior" is offensive to me.

I used the phrase that is common not meaning to offend anyone, I believe it applies to people who regard cycling as a sport and not their only means of transport. I'd given up motorbikes in 1981 when I bought my first house (and interest rates were 'sky high) and gone back to my Carlton but then when my fiance and I split up in 85 I used part of my share of the settlement to buy my last motorbike. Only had one bike for years until my 'midlife crisis' kicked in in my 40's when it expanded to 9 (all older bikes but 'modernised' with better transmission/wheels/brakes)

 

[Smokin Joe]

I used the phrase that is common not meaning to offend anyone, I believe it applies to people who regard cycling as a sport and not their only means of transport.

That would be me. Cycling was all about racing or leisure riding, using a bike for day to day transport was never on.