Dodgy knee help.

[Scoosh]

In the mean time read these articles :
Part 1 and Part 2

There is a very silly advert on the TV at present which says something like 'impatience is great'. This is absolute rubbish and especially when applied to knee pain/injuries.

As others have said (and I will repeat it, so you might get hold of it) - DON'T AGGRAVATE A KNEE INJURY Irrespective of how old or young your are, if you knacker your knees, you will regret it big time later.

You seem to have an slight attitude towards anything which doesn't work to your timetable. Welcome to the real world . Relax. Chill - or whatever the current expression is for not being uptight

I have had to learn that trying to get back to (full) fitness too early doesn't work and takes far longer in the end. Sometimes you have to slow down or even stop what you are doing for a while and let things heal .... and don't worry, you will not lose all your fitness in a couple of weeks

And +1 for a physio referral. Yes, it might take ages but, unless you go private, it's all there is and is worth the wait. Physio stuff some years ago used to be about the physio pummelling/massaging your sore bit and it got better. Nowadays it is all about you doing exercises/stopping doing certain things to provide long term gain, which you can manage yourself for ... well the rest of your life.


Here endeth the lesson


Do I sound like your parents ???

 

[willhub]

My knee is not always bad, it's just flared up badly the past couple of days, I take lots of rest despite what people may think, every doctor I have talked to says there is no reason I should stop cycling though. And with my voluntery job I have to cycle there as I can't drive, no busses at all, far far far too far to walk and my parents certainly wont take me. It's 8 miles there and the same back.

Maybe those omega 3 oil and glucosamine sulphate was helping it? I stopped taking those abit ago as I thought I was seeing no benefits.

 

[Will1985]

I'll get onto being referred to a physio in Manchester closer to the time as I think they will do that.

Why wait? You know there is a waiting list - get on both ASAP and then cancel the one which is less convenient.

 

[willhub]

Is it possible for me to not tell the doctors here at home as it's be a faff and just contact the doctors in Manchester directly and ask them to refer me? Or would they need to see me?

 

[Paul_iow]

Why would you not want to contact your own GP? For someone to refer you they would need to see you. You can't just phone up a doctor and ask for a referral without an assessment. You can ask your GP here to refer you to a physio nearer college.

 

[Will1985]

If your GP is helpful they may be able to write a second referral letter to a Manchester NHS physio saying that you are a student in Manchester, and that it would be more convenient to see them there given your academic schedule. This obviously ignores any 'rules' about where you are supposed to be registered as students are a complicated situation - some departments can get picky about this sort of thing.
As long as you cancel the uneccessary appointment in good time you shouldn't be wasting any NHS time/money.

 

[willhub]

Well I'm only a temp resident at the doctors near home, I'm registered in Manchester, I don't know who my GP is here?? The doctor I seen yesterday was rather unhelpful not answering much questions about my knee saying I just have to wait for the Physio blah blah blah. So I still contact the doctors near here? Well I wont need to book a new appointment will I could I just call the reception and get them to do it?

 

[Fiona N]

Some thoughts as a sufferer of knee problems over the years:

If you cycle - ice the knee(s) when you get back - every time. This means getting a tray of ice cubes in a plastic bag with half a cup of water and sitting with the bag over the knee cap for up to 10 minutes. This will reduce any tendency to inflammation and help the knee settle down quicker;

The problems you're getting suggest that the knee isn't tracking properly and you'll need some remedial exercises to balance the muscles around the knees to correct this - only the physio will give you these, GPs are pretty hopeless at anything like this (to be fair, they're not trained to do it) so you need to hang in there and see a physio;

Being told you can cycle by doctors (especially GPs) can be misleading as (very)often the doctor means a couple of miles when he/she says cycling - they're not thinking over 4 hours or more or big hills - make sure they specify what they mean and tell them that you cycle long distances.

Arthroscopy to fix / remove a damaged cartilege isn't that bad - I've been back on the bike (gently) after a couple of days, so don't despair if you have to take this route.

Finally, your body's very resilient when you're young so problems now don't necessarily mean that you'll be troubled forever - but make sure you get the problem sorted as far as possible as soon as possible otherwise the action needed in future can really set you back.

Let me give you my own example - I used to do a lot of orienteering and fell running as a kid and was always spraining my ankles. I rested just long enough 'til the pain went away then was back out. I never saw a physio. When I got to 30, a final sprain snapped the last bit of ligament holding my right ankle joint together resulting in a joint so unstable I couldn't do anything - not even swim. Walking required crutches as I couldn't put any weight on the ankle. In the month before I got an operation (which I paid for myself as the NHS waiting list was nearly a year) to reconstruct the ankle (and this wasn't arthroscopy but fairly major surgery) and the 3 months when it was in various plaster casts then supports, I put on about 10kgs, just from not being able to do any exercise (compared to what I used to do). The surgeon was quite specific - if I'd had physio in the past for the previous injuries, the chances were that I would never have got to the stage I did as the previous ligament damage could have been sorted with physio and a minor op if necessary and, more importantly, the weaknesses in my ankles could have been addressed with some remedial exercises.

So don't tough it out.

 

[willhub]

Thanks for that post very informative. I talked to the doctor in Manchester a while ago and he told me I should consider backing off doing lots of miles, so I've being cycling allot less, usually around 3 days a week, it did help abit and I got allot faster from it.

I have being discharged from the physios, I never replied to the letter I got that never came on the 5th of this month, but my mum told them this on the phone when I was out and got an appointment at the physio for 25th August. I'd have thought the doctor yesterday would have knew about the letter sent out must have bieng in the records :

I'll try the ice cubes, I had ago with a bag of peas but my mum went mental so I had to swiftly put them back in the freezer, what's the half a cup of water for?


Thanks
Will.

 

[Fiona N]

The water is for the ice cubes to cool. The problem if you use just ice cubes is that they don't transfer the cold very effectively as they contact the skin in just a few places and this can cause those contact points to freeze - which you definitely don't want. So adding a bit of water means that the ice cubes cool it down to a bit above freezing then the contact area is bigger as the plastic bag/water can drape effectively over the joint and, even more importantly, you can't freeze any flesh causing cold injuries.

Those bendy sports ice packs you can buy are a major source of cold injuries as people place them directly on the skin and leave them for too long only to find that they've frozen the skin which causes blistering like a burn - basically shallow frost bite - not good.

 

[Will1985]

I'd have thought the doctor yesterday would have knew about the letter sent out must have bieng in the records :

Unlikely - it sometimes takes ages for letters to reach a GP...there have been cases where a patient has died and the doctor informed by relatives weeks before any official confirmation arrives from the hospital.

Being told to cut down should mean shorter rides in duration as well as fewer times in a week. For instance, if you're doing 3 hours a day, reduce it to 2 hours or less.

Big +1 to Fiona N's post yesterday.

 

[willhub]

Can anyone shed some light on what this may be? When I am sat down, or jsut got my leg bent a certain way, when I sort of rotate my ankle when on the floor or slightly bend my leg, my knee has a weird hard to describe sort of crackling sensation, or a creaky vibration or something. That's something that I want to know, the doctors haven't answered that before.

 

[paraffinlamps]

Willhub I fully sympathise with you .I`m a runner and because of problems with my right knee ( medial side osteoarthritis ,a displaced meniscus flap tear and a smaller horizontal meniscus tear ) ,I have started to cycle to keep my fitness up while I wait to get my knee sorted and because of my arthritis cycling will now start to play a bigger role in my fitness .
I`m fortunate in that my running club is at the local hospital and a couple of members are physios .
It was the physios that advised me of my cartilige tears ,the NHS orthapedic surgeon just did an xray ,told me I had significant osteoarthritis and that I would need a partial knee replacent ,when I mentioned the possibility of cartilige tears he said no ,its arthritis and you need partial knee replacement and there was no point having an mri scan .He told me my running days were over and to start cycling and swimming instead .
I left feeling somewhat confused and slightly angry that he just wanted to replace my knee ,I`m only 46 .
After chatting to the physios and another runner who went through something similar , I decided to get an mri done privately .The mri showed the arthritis and the 2 tears.
I have now got myself refered to a sports injury specialist of the knee at The Orthapedic hospital in Oswestry ( I live in the West Mids ) using the choices option of the NHS .
My advice would be to ease of as mentioned and wait and see what the physio says and re read Fionas long post a few times especially the last bit .
I was told to wear knee pads several times when I was younger for my job ,I was young and thought I knew best and couldn`t be bothered most of the time. How I wished I`d listened now .
I have been advised by quite a few people that glucosamine does help and to take 1500mg a day .

 

[Will1985]

FFS, why bother asking for help if all you're going to do is continue riding long distances? 114 miles yesterday and planning 160 next week suggests that you aren't taking this problem seriously.

 

[postman]

Ok old Postman here.
Time passes quick.Have been retired three years so it's about 5-6 years when i was discovered to have Osteoarthritis in both hips and secondary Arthritis in both knees.

Two knee ops.Three holes drilled into knee then flushed out,and some frayed cartlidge tidied up.

But it started up again further examination i had a star shaped rip in the cartlidge.
This was repaired and hey bingo it's ok i am 59.

But if i twist and turn or carry heavy objects the knees react and swell up.

This has happened twice this year.After being a volunteer to move heavy objects .

Do what i did REST them.Give them time to heal.And build up your distances.Short rides then increase by five miles or so every month.

Then your knees will tell you this is far enough.

I would rather cycle shorter and often than never at all.

My longest rides this year have been 65 and 67 miles in the day.

Leeds to Bridlington and Leeds to Grassington.

Don't push it.Enjoy the riding it's not about bragging how many miles we have done.

Not if you suffer for weeks afterwards.