Do spliffs facilitate carb replenishment?

[montage]

Can I suggest that the latter part of this thread - starting from Riverman's post be moved into Politics and Life? Or Riverman if you copy and paste some of this and create a thread in PandL.... drug legalisation is a difficult topic to debate.....and people in PandL like debating difficult topics.

 

[col]

People steal to fund crack cocaine and heroin habits. By making these completely illegal you firstly make the drugs very expensive for the users and you also make them associate with violent criminals to obtain their hit. You also criminalise the users.

Naturally, many then turn to crime to fund their habit. They become theifs or even prostitutes.

This is a bad way of dealing with it. Drug addiction is a disease. Both drugs should be available on prescrpition to known addicts as a medicine.

Take heroin. In the UK we have around 300 heroin deaths a year and 280,000 addicts roughly but only 200 people recieving heroin on prescription. Switzerland has had a prescription heroin programme for the last 15 years. During this time, there has never been a death from heroin use and there has been a significant reduction in associated crime. There have been similar results from a programme in British Columbia.

Crack cocaine is a very strong form of cocaine. It is a well known fact that the illegaility of drugs has overtime meant that drugs have become stronger. There is no control over this. By regulating drugs we can exercise control over their use, manufacture and supply.

By the way. People do not get violent when they're on heroin. It is simply not that kind of drug. It's when they can't it that they become violent. It is their inability to obtain heroin that leads to them commiting violence. Prohibitionists offer very ineffective solutions to this problem.

And as for cannabis. I've never known anyone to be violent whilst under its influence. Quite the opposite to be honest. Whereas I've lost count of the number of people even I know who lose their temper sometimes whilst under the influence of alcohol.

Our area uses methadone and others as a substitute, it stops the bodily reactions, or the rattle. That was my point wrongly put, its what they get up to when they cant get it. I dissagree that its a disease, its a self inflicted addiction, where ignorance of its effect is an excuse for most on it for years, but not newer addicts. Just like smokers, years ago we didnt know the possible effects and the addiction rate, but we do now, that doesnt make it a disease.
As has been said, cannabis is a jump start for some who want more of a kick when it doesnt do it for them anymore, so experimentation can start.

 

[Riverman]

Hi Col,

Methadone use is problematic. It is not ideal to give a drug out to addicts to take into the community. Most methadone users still use heroin if they can get hold of it, so why not just prescribe heroin?

Better still if you prescribe heroin and administer it in clinics under medical supervision there are several positive outcomes.

1) Methadone is not taken into the community and sold to people
2) Users no longer have to buy their heroin and commit crime to obtain it
3) Needles are safely discarded in the clinics, largely removing the danger of discarded needles in the community
4) The dealers make a lot less money!
5) People (touch wood) do not die of heroin overdoses
6) There is no risk of HIV or Hepetitus B infection

If you don't think methadone use is problematic, why is there a black market in methadone and why do methadone users also take heroin?

I dissagree that its a disease, its a self inflicted addiction,

Disease

n.

1. A pathological condition of a part, organ, or system of an organism resulting from various causes, such as infection, genetic defect, or environmental stress, and characterized by an identifiable group of signs or symptoms.
2. A condition or tendency, as of society, regarded as abnormal and harmful.
3. Obsolete. Lack of ease; trouble.

Whether it's self-inflicted is not the debate here. It is a physical illness brought on by environmental stress or genetic defect.

where ignorance of its effect is an excuse for most on it for years, but not newer addicts.

Ignorance yes to a certain degree. However, take alcohol. I think the typical alcohol user is completely ignorant of the dangers of addiction. Their image of addiction is nothing like the reality. The reality is that such physical addiction is a horrible disease.

Also not everyone who drinks becomes addicted and I think it would be foolhardy to put that simply down to ignorance.

As has been said, cannabis is a jump start for some who want more of a kick when it doesnt do it for them anymore, so experimentation can start.

This Gateway Theory has been mentioned several times already in this thread. The vast majority of research that has been undertaken has shown that it's largely non existant.

Anyway even if there was a gateway effect, surely it would be a strong argument to legalise the softer drugs. If your so convinced alcohol is not a gateway drug (as you keep implicating cannabis in your gateway thesis), as a legal drug shouldn't that be how we deal with others that are as safe or safer than alcohol? Why not seperate the softer drugs from the harder ones?

Hey, maybe if we legalized cannabis some people would use it as a safer alternative to alcoho because I can tell you 100% that it's a lot safer. It would drastically reduce the burden of disease caused by alcohol.