Do frames go "dead" with age?

[PhilDawson8270]

Personally I don't trust ali parts, especially handlebars and rims, more than a few years old.

Yet aluminium car engines go on for years, and years, without exploding.

And aluminium motorcycle frames, and aluminium alloy wheels.

Heck, not so long ago I was doing 145mph on a 14 year old aluminium bike, with an aluminium engine running at 15k rpm. With aluminium brake levers.

 

[Daddybus]

@mikeymustard are you regreting opening this can of worms yet?... Good luck with gout !

 

[mikeymustard]

Age hardening (or precipitation hardening when it is done deliberately) is a thing which changes the grain structure of Al alloys even if it is just lying on a shelf. Its effects vary from alloy to alloy and depends on other things such as temperature. Personally I don't trust ali parts, especially handlebars and rims, more than a few years old.

I trust you also avoid flying? Aircraft are made from Ali alloys too.

I'm not sure age (and precipitation) hardening is quite the same thing as it's a manufacturing process, I used to work for an alu extruder. I have heard of bars failing but I thought that was due to corrosion.
Wheels, especially the spoked variety can fail for all sorts of reasons, even new ones so I'm not going to worry too hard.
There are hundreds of dc3/dakotas still flying, some of them are 70 yrs old

 

[mikeymustard]

@mikeymustard are you regreting opening this can of worms yet?... Good luck with gout !

It's kept me occupied
The naproxen's finally reduced the swelling, I've gotta have bloods done in about 6 weeks before they'll give me the drugs, you can get cocaine easier!

 

[Hover Fly]

I trust you also avoid flying? Aircraft are made from Ali alloys too.

By my quick estimate 2000 plus people have been killed in accidents attributed to metal failure.
The aircraft builders and airlines put a lot of effort into keeping aircraft safe, including such measures as replacing parts after a certain life span.

There are hundreds of dc3/dakotas still flying, some of them are 70 yrs old

And I'll bet they've all had important parts replaced.
Seen any de Havilland Comets flying lately?

Yet aluminium car engines go on for years, and years, without exploding.

And aluminium motorcycle frames, and aluminium alloy wheels.

Heck, not so long ago I was doing 145mph on a 14 year old aluminium bike, with an aluminium engine running at 15k rpm. With aluminium brake levers.

I have seen loads of broken motorbike parts. And been in a Ford Escort when its engine exploded.

Take the risk of kissing tar coming down Gummer's How or Kirkstone, for the sake of a few miserly quid on handlebars? No thanks.

 

[PhilDawson8270]

Seen any de Havilland Comets flying lately?

You mean the Comets that had a design flaw (square windows) that caused failure?

 

[Hover Fly]

Or the later Comet 4 with oval windows, I was really thinking of a jet of comparable age to the DC3.

 

[mikeymustard]

Or the later Comet 4 with oval windows, I was really thinking of a jet of comparable age to the DC3.

that's not quite the same argument though, pressurised planes suffer fatigue from constant expansion/contraction.
All materials have compromises, I'm guessing you're far more likely to have a blow-out on a brand new lightweight racing tyre than a handlebar failure, but that's not to say it won't happen.

 

[Firestorm]

This was mentioned in last weeks CW
Along with a brief anecdote about a team cleaning the "dead" bikes up giving them back to the riders as new ones and them being totally unaware

 

[rhm]

I am late to the party, as usual! But allow me to offer a couple observations:

1. In the days of steel racing bikes, just as today, frame manufacturers liked racers to replace their frames every couple years because it meant regular customers. Meanwhile, the racers themselves could boast of their prowess at having made a frame "go dead" in such-and-such a time; and of course they loved an excuse to get a new bike. Win-win!

2. I've known a lot of riders, claiming to be former racers, who say their beloved steel racing bike has, over the years, gotten "noodly." But on average, I'd estimate the riders in question now weigh 50% more than they did when they raced! Now, I don't mean to scoff, really, I don't! But I weigh the same as I did 35 years ago, and my old steel frames don't seem in the least noodly. But what do I know, I was never much of a racer.

 

[mikeymustard]

2. I've known a lot of riders, claiming to be former racers, who say their beloved steel racing bike has, over the years, gotten "noodly." But on average, I'd estimate the riders in question now weigh 50% more than they did when they raced! Now, I don't mean to scoff, really, I don't! But I weigh the same as I did 35 years ago, and my old steel frames don't seem in the least noodly. But what do I know, I was never much of a racer

I actually do weigh 50% more than I did in my 20s but those same bikes I rode then still seem as good now!

 

[rhm]

I actually do weigh 50% more than I did in my 20s but those same bikes I rode then still seem as good now!

I believe you!

I am continually amazed by the guys who discuss subtle differences in the way their bikes ride. I know guys who prefer 32 spoke wheels over 36, because they are more comfortable. They will also declare that Columbus SLX rides better than Reynolds 531. And tubulars, don't ever let them get started on tubulars! Life is too short. I don't doubt what they say, but speaking for myself, I can't feel the difference. Lighter bikes are definitely easier to carry up stairs, though.

 

[Yellow Saddle]

I believe you!

I am continually amazed by the guys who discuss subtle differences in the way their bikes ride. I know guys who prefer 32 spoke wheels over 36, because they are more comfortable. They will also declare that Columbus SLX rides better than Reynolds 531. And tubulars, don't ever let them get started on tubulars! Life is too short. I don't doubt what they say, but speaking for myself, I can't feel the difference. Lighter bikes are definitely easier to carry up stairs, though.

Don't be amazed.

https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/wheels-as-an-upgrade.199167/page-2

 

[mikeymustard]

The best upgrade I've ever done was putting wider tyres on me bike!

 

[TheDoctor]

Mike Burrows once defied anyone to tell what a bike frame was made of, either by riding it or using test gear and micrometers. Not magnets, obviously!
I reckon you could make a stiff steel frame, a compliant alloy frame, a noodly Ti frame or a springy carbon frame if you tried.