DJI enter Ebike market

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CXRAndy

Guru
Location
Lincs
Famous for their drones (having owned one), DJI have designed a whole new bike, motor, electronics for motor control. Easy use interface, powerful 12A rapid charger.

I can see many manufacturers adopting DJI systems.

It will be cheaper, better functionality than the likes of Bosch, Brose, Yamaha. It will probably get Banfang to up their design an interface to be similar to DJI.


View: https://youtu.be/QEIdw6eIJtE?si=rbuI6IGNWlHy8M3v
 

numbnuts

Legendary Member
I hope it takes off :laugh:
 
> It will be cheaper, better functionality than the likes of Bosch, Brose, Yamaha.

Doubt it'll be cheaper given it's a carbon fiber frame, and is advertised as coming with smart phone integration and fast charging.
 
A street legal 1000W peak mid-drive motor with 850W maximum power outside the 30 second 1000W mode. Manufacturers are making no attempt to pretend they fit in with the 250W limit nowadays it seems. No doubt it will turn up with a 250W rating label though for the European market.
 
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CXRAndy

CXRAndy

Guru
Location
Lincs
If there are so many illegal Ebikes, why isn't there a corresponding similar rise in serious injuries from using these Ebikes. I understand there has been accidents, some fatalities, but not on the numbers corresponding to the vast take up of these electric bikes. Maybe when a regulation is arbitrary, folk will ignore it, manufacturers ignore it.

Allowing 1000W bikes, could revolutionise transport, slashing vehicle numbers from the roads, increasing many many peoples physical activity

I know my wife having an Ebike has convinced her to go from a non cyclist to bring able to ride 60 miles . She only rides maybe 3 times a month in summer. We are now going on a 200 mile cycling holiday.

The untapped benefits of assisted cycling are huge
 

Dogtrousers

Kilometre nibbler
Allowing 1000W bikes, could revolutionise transport, slashing vehicle numbers from the roads, increasing many many peoples physical activity
But would it? Or would it just slash the number of people walking or taking the bus? (I don't know the answer to that btw)

And why is higher power seen as necessary? 250W is more or less the same ballpark as a moderately fit human rider*. So riding a 250W ebike gives you an invisible fit rider who doesn't get tired powering your pedals. This fit rider can manage pretty much all the hills that the UK can offer. So the rider's effort - with maximum assist - can be really low. Low enough for most unfit people.

But double that to 500W and you now have an invisible pro athlete powering your bike, giving you enormous acceleration. And you have untrained untested people using these on cycleways and shared use paths. What could possibly go wrong?

Now double that again to 1000W. You're riding round on a tandem powered by Wout van Aert and Mathieu van Der Poel. This is motorbike level power. And motorbikes haven't revolutionised transport, slashing vehicle numbers. If you want electric motorbikes, sure, but they are still motorbikes.

* Coincidentally, 250W happens to be my FTP. Actually it's not a coincidence. I don't mean that they used me as a basis for the rules, just that I'm fairly ordinary and they used a ballpark figure for what ordinary people can do - so that the bike performs and handles similarly to an ordinary person-powered bike but is accessible to more people.
 
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CXRAndy

CXRAndy

Guru
Location
Lincs
It's not solely about having 500/1000/1500 Watts. It's about limiting speed and burdensome legislation.

250W is pathetic for anything but flat.

You have 250W FTP I have around the same , but that is me going at threshold HR which is making me sweat a hell of a lot.

An unfit rider mayput out as little as 100W and that will be trying quite hard


To comfortably climb a steep hill not be blowing a gasket for the rider 500W minimum is required to help an unfit rider. To give 500W for a several minute climb, requires a motor of at least 750W to cope with overheating for extended periods of max output.

I think the speed limit should lifted to 20 mph, allowing say 500-~1500W as standard, not place excessive licencing upon owners. Riders could and would use their bikes for local trips, commuting.

Look at Europe, where Ebikes are even more popular. They have standard Ebike and speed Ebikes. The legislation for 28mph isn't burdensome, small licence plate and nominal fees to use on the road.

People have options in Europe, the UK doesn't, folk/gig economy riders set themselves up for what they need to get the job done.
 

Dogtrousers

Kilometre nibbler
It's not solely about having 500/1000/1500 Watts. It's about limiting speed and burdensome legislation.

250W is pathetic for anything but flat.

You have 250W FTP I have around the same , but that is me going at threshold HR which is making me sweat a hell of a lot.

An unfit rider mayput out as little as 100W and that will be trying quite hard


To comfortably climb a steep hill not be blowing a gasket for the rider 500W minimum is required to help an unfit rider. To give 500W for a several minute climb, requires a motor of at least 750W to cope with overheating for extended periods of max output.

I think the speed limit should lifted to 20 mph, allowing say 500-~1500W as standard, not place excessive licencing upon owners. Riders could and would use their bikes for local trips, commuting.

Look at Europe, where Ebikes are even more popular. They have standard Ebike and speed Ebikes. The legislation for 28mph isn't burdensome, small licence plate and nominal fees to use on the road.

People have options in Europe, the UK doesn't, folk/gig economy riders set themselves up for what they need to get the job done.

Hang on.

I can ride my relatively heavy bike up any hill that the UK has to offer (except for a few ludicrously steep exceptions) and I can never even approach 500W. Not even close.

So why should an unfit rider, who is contributing, let's say 50W, need a total of 550W? I manage just fine on my meagre 250W. Why do ebike riders need more than twice that? Sure they need a bit extra because they're lugging a heavy battery around but more than twice that? As I said above, a sustained 500+ Watts is elevating them to the pro ranks, or at least talented amateur.

What you're proposing are electric motorbikes. And yes, I could see an extra tier of regulation for small electric motorbikes, but they are still motorbikes and should be strictly for on-road use only.
 
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Dadam

Über Member
Location
SW Leeds
But double that to 500W and you now have an invisible pro athlete powering your bike, giving you enormous acceleration. And you have untrained untested people using these on cycleways and shared use paths. What could possibly go wrong?

Now double that again to 1000W. You're riding round on a tandem powered by Wout van Aert and Mathieu van Der Poel. This is motorbike level power. And motorbikes haven't revolutionised transport, slashing vehicle numbers. If you want electric motorbikes, sure, but they are still motorbikes.

* Coincidentally, 250W happens to be my FTP. Actually it's not a coincidence. I don't mean that they used me as a basis for the rules, just that I'm fairly ordinary and they used a ballpark figure for what ordinary people can do - so that the bike performs and handles similarly to an ordinary person-powered bike but is accessible to more people.

I'm not sure how many e-bikes you've ridden in the real world but your theoretical stats don't match up to reality.

"Enormous acceleration" is risible. On the flat with a lightish rider it can be reasonably brisk but add a weighty rider and a steep incline and that soon finds its limits. "1000W is motorbike level power" :laugh: It's a fraction of the 11kw for a restricted 125cc machine, so let's get some perspective please.

I have an Orbea Gain e-road bike with 250w and I love it. It's a lightweight e-bike with a small battery, about 14 kg in all and it's very easy to pedal with the motor off. I'm 90 ish kg and reasonably fit for an average person (not very fit compared to keen cyclists, but I don't really do the miles) but even on full assist it will only get me up 15%-20% hills if I put in a lot of effort myself.

I've also got a Cube e-MTB with a Bosch motor and that is a different beast. The bike is 25kg. The motor is legal as it's is rated for 250w continuous but it can deliver something like 3 times that for short bursts. The acceleration is quite fun and grin inducing but it's nowhere near motorbike level. Yes of course it could take the unwary by surprise and you do have to be careful with your weight distribution on steep climbs but that's the case for normal bikes too.

My gut feeling is to enable more people, especially heavier people or less physically able, e.g with hip and knee conditions, in hilly areas to commute for further distances and give up car use; about 500w but with a 20mph assist cutoff (or 30km/h - 18.6mph) would be about right.

As to untrained, untested people using them on shared use paths, well you have that now. Worse in fact because the situation is so little enforced that it seems people have the attitude of anything goes. They're so unlikely to be caught.

Currently, people are motivated to cross the line, e.g by dongles to defeat the assist speed. Once they've done that there's no incentive not to go for the maximum the bike will do.

Less tight limits with tighter enforcement is the way forwards IMHO. If the law allows realistic use by more people, they're less likely to seek to cross the line.
 

Dogtrousers

Kilometre nibbler
I'm not sure how many e-bikes you've ridden in the real world but your theoretical stats don't match up to reality.
You've got me there. I've ridden a total of one ebike, for a total of about 5 mins. It was fun. So that does expose my ignorance somewhat.

Later that day, after my 5 min ride, the owner of that e-bike and his wife, a couple in their mid 60s, healthy but don't train, rode their UK legal ebikes up the Grand Colombier, no problems at all (apart from battery depletion).

That's about 1,200m ascent in about 17km. Average of about 8% with some serious kickers. I rode it too, on my ordinary bike. I averaged a feeble 200W. Now, I wasn't lugging a huge great battery up there, but I was lugging over 90kg of me.

I'm still failing to see why ebike riders expect to be transformed into super-fit or even super-human riders capable of a sustained 500W or even 1000W. It makes no sense. I've done many, many miles up hill and down dale and I've never been anywhere near 500W average. Not even in the same ballpark.
 

Dadam

Über Member
Location
SW Leeds
I'm still failing to see why ebike riders expect to be transformed into super-fit or even super-human riders capable of a sustained 500W or even 1000W. It makes no sense. I've done many, many miles up hill and down dale and I've never been anywhere near 500W average. Not even in the same ballpark.

What I'm trying to say, possibly badly, is that these e-bikes do not necessarily give the riders the hill climbing or acceleration performance of super-fit or super-human riders. For whatever reason I'm not sure, but the headline figure of say 500W motor output, does not remotely translate into what a pro cyclist with an 500w FTP could do. It's not a fair comparison.
 
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