Deaths when not using helmet

[Red Light]

Interesting study Red Light. Not read through this in enough detail yet, but, if this an accurate study, then the conclusion shows positive benefits of helmets in terms of pure head injuries but an alarming trend of the more modern soft shells seeming to be less effective, but effective none-the-less. Neck injuries are the real concern though, consistently higher liklihood of neck injuries with helmets whether in new or old studies. No real surprise that facial injuries are only slightly, and fairly negligably, less likely with helmets.

So, based purely on this, the trade off seems to be whether you value your head or your neck...

Would neck injuries be reduced for helmet wearers if the rotational issues were improved?? I also liked your link about the Phillips superskin helmets the other day. Possibly a cycling version within a year.

http://www.bikeradar...injuries-25081/

At this point we should introduce the dreaded C word. Maybe it would be better if it was introduced, then maybe the focus would shift back to positively improving helmet safety...

Its unwise to look at one paper in isolation. You need to select and critically review the papers in the field to get a proper perspective, as attractive as it is to jump on the first one that agrees with you.

 

[david k]

likewise with yours redlight

 

[Red Light]

they are figures i found whilst looking into the subject, similar to the figures you have put forward, open to interpretation yes, just like yours

Not like mine at all. Mine account for the exposure because I know its important. You just copied a bunch of meaningless figures taking no account of exposure without even any of the caveats associated with them.

Your approach would conclude a Moggie Minor was safer than a Ford Focus because less people were killed in them every year. Mine would conclude the opposite because it would take account of the fact that there were far fewer Moggie Minors on the road and they covered far fewer miles.

 

[Red Light]

likewise with yours redlight

I have read a large numbers of the papers in the field and done that work, I suspect the one I've just posted is your first.

 

[david k]

Your approach would conclude a Moggie Minor was safer than a Ford Focus because less people were killed in them every year.

its overall deaths? why is that like focus minor?

 

[david k]

I have read a large numbers of the papers in the field and done that work, I suspect the one I've just posted is your first.

i dont claim to have read the amount you have, or you have claimed to have read, however you have asked for evidence in the past so a quick search found this, i felt it was quite suitable.

 

[Red Light]

i dont claim to have read the amount you have, or you have claimed to have read, however you have asked for evidence in the past so a quick search found this, i felt it was quite suitable.

And rather appropriate that you chose a paper that was so flawed that someone bothered to publish a reanalysis of the results to try to correct some of the errors - that doesn't happen very often in science

 

[ufkacbln]

The BHSI is an excellent site as it is openly pro-helmet, but is unafraid to point out limitations and faults.

Further down the page is another interesting table.

Again the author points out that the data is limited, but given that the raw data is interesting.

Statistics from CPSC's NEISS data

Injury Estimates for the Top 25 Product Groupings
From the 2007 NEISS Data Highlights
Total product-related injuries treated in hospital emergency rooms nationwide

Stairs, Ramps, Landings, Floors 2,324,938
Beds, Mattresses, Pillows 560,129
Bicycles & Accessories 515,871
Basketball 481,011
Chairs, Sofas, Sofa Beds 476,109
Football 455,193
Bathroom Structures & Fixtures 330,102
Non-glass Doors, Panels 321,665
Tables, not elsewhere classified 309,252
ATV’s, Mopeds, Minibikes, etc. 278,671
Baseball, Softball 277,702
Exercise, Exercise Equipment 264,921
Desks, Cabinets, Shelves, Racks 262,171
Cans, Other Containers 248,126
Clothing 245,129
Ladders, Stools 227,769
All Toys 224,827
Playground Equipment 219,625
Soccer 198,679
Swimming, Pools, Equipment 155,322
Glass Doors, Windows, Panels 155,269
Skateboards 143,682
Workshop Manual Tools 131,396
Carpets, Rugs 128,361
Other Misc. Furniture & Accessories 122,662

According to this data, head injuries in both basketball and Football are within 10% of cycle related injuries!

I wonder how many injuries per mile this calculates as for footballers and basketball players?

Are there more basketball players than cyclists?

 

[Red Light]

According to this data, head injuries in both basketball and Football are within 10% of cycle related injuries!

I wonder how many injuries per mile this calculates as for footballers and basketball players?

Are there more basketball players than cyclists?

Soccer helmets are an interesting parallel to cycle helmets and just as controversial with creeping mandation. And as with cycle helmets it started in the Land of the Free. Skiing helmets are another area again led by the USA with again little to no evidence of benefit but good evidence of risk compensation.

 

[ufkacbln]

Soccer helmets are an interesting parallel to cycle helmets and just as controversial with creeping mandation. And as with cycle helmets it started in the Land of the Free. Skiing helmets are another area again led by the USA with again little to no evidence of benefit but good evidence of risk compensation.

Don't forget though that evidence and statistics are far less powerful than a "celebrity injury".

A celebrity suffering a head injury is going to do more to promote something in the face of all common sense, evidence and fact, no matter how controversial that evidence is.

The big boost for ski helmets was not evidential, but the unfortunate death of Natasha Richardson. Equally the "wear a helmet or die" campaign by James Cracknell is affecting cycle helmet debate

 

[Red Light]

The big boost for ski helmets was not evidential, but the unfortunate death of Natasha Richardson.

No, helmet use in North America has grown steadily for two decades or more with little influence from the deaths of Sonny Bono, Micheal Kennedy or Natasha Richardson i.e. there were not step changes in wearing after their accidents.

 

[Angelfishsolo]

And rather appropriate that you chose a paper that was so flawed that someone bothered to publish a reanalysis of the results to try to correct some of the errors - that doesn't happen very often in science

Many people get PhD's by disproving someone's thesis. Not sure how your "that doesn't happen very often in science" quote is accurate.

 

[tigger]

Another interesting study here:

http://www.smf.org/docs/articles/report.html

Authors conclusion: "This study provides powerful statistical evidence that bicycle helmets, regardless of type, provide protection to cyclists in all circumstances, including crashes involving motor vehicles."

Sadly, this did not evaluate neck or other non-head injuries.

 

[Red Light]

Many people get PhD's by disproving someone's thesis. Not sure how your "that doesn't happen very often in science" quote is accurate.

Its quite rare for a paper to either be retracted or have such significant errors that someone publishes a paper correcting them.

 

[Angelfishsolo]

Its quite rare for a paper to either be retracted or have such significant errors that someone publishes a paper correcting them.

A PhD Thesis is a proof put forward by the candidate. As science moves on it is not uncommon for that proof to be overturned by another PhD candidate. It does not mean the original work was flawed unless you take into account the failure to include (at the time) unknowable information.