dark cycle kit!!

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sbird

Über Member
Location
Reading
... or you could replace education with fear.

That is what the latest Government Safety Campaigns Tales of the Road does

Oh great. That's victim blaming right there. So if I wear a short skirt and look "inviting" as a women then I'm to culpable for being raped? Step out on a blind bend as a young person, read "inexperienced", and its my fault?

"Always cross when you can see what's coming" speaks the video. Where's the responsibility on the road user (driver, pedestrian, cyclist) to accommodate that they are approaching any hazard and act accordingly? Slow down? Anticipate any hazards? Or just blaze on through expecting any form of life to give way?

EDIT : took out redundant "to"
 

Noodley

Guest
I wear a cock-guard. You never know....but it's black, if it was fluoro you maybe would know.
 

HovR

Über Member
Location
Plymouth
Somewhat like this kitten, this thread is just going around in circles.. :wacko:

1376646_o.gif
 
OP
OP
bianchi1

bianchi1

Legendary Member
Location
malverns
So to summarise, the point I opened with was that I see a lot of cyclists out by me in the dusk, by that I don’t mean dark, but a light which results in most (9/10) cars having their head lights on, wearing black kit. It struck me this was on the increase and I wondered why as most cycle kit comes in a range of colours from dark to light.

This is not about night riding, there are reasonable laws surrounding how cyclists should equip their bikes which I assumed everyone would agree with, although it appears that there is a small minority who believe that road safety should be governed by some sort of hierarchical system ie:

Pedestrians don’t have be visible cos its cyclists ultimate responsibility that they remain safe

Cyclists don’t have to carry lights cos its mopeds ultimate responsibility that they remain safe

Mopeds don’t have to have their lights on cos its large motorbikes ultimate responsibility that they remain safe

large motorbikes don’t have to have their lights on cos its cars ultimate responsibility that they remain safe

cars may as well not put their lights on cos its vans................etc etc etc

An interesting argument, and one that would ensure that everyone is very safe, however I would like to see some evidence (I will return to this evidence theme!) how this would work and impact on traffic flow..

Its all about why people are wearing black in dusk, nothing to do with lights.

So what does the evidence tell us riding in brighter clothing?

Several studies (peer reviewed, not Wikipedia) suggests that the evidence points toward

Drivers' and observers' detection and recognition improved with visibility aids. For daytime, fluorescent materials in yellow, red and orange colours enhanced detection and recognition. "Biomotion" markings enhanced recognition. Substantial heterogeneity between the trials limits the possibility for meta-analysis. Visibility aids have the potential to improve detection and recognition and would merit further development to gain public acceptance"

(from: Visibility aids for pedestrians and cyclists: a systematic review of randomised controlled trials)

As with all research more needs to be done to improve our knowledge, but at the moment I would argue the evidence (there it is again) seems compelling.

If anyone can provide any EVIDENCE that does not start with “I saw.....I can see....Well I....I’ve never, ” that cycling in dark clothing is as safe as cycling in bright clothing put it on here. If that is your assertion then what is your evidence? Surely you cannot base it on only what you can see or have seen? That leads us to the assumption that the earth is flat..We have to rely on others experiences, research, experiments and writings..so it would be nice if your evidence could start with:

"It has been shown that......" (and then the source in brackets)

Now.... I have lots of interesting stuff on cyclists motivations and how clothing, image and how we relate to others works from: (evidence)

O’Connor, J.P. and Brown, T.D. (2006). Competitive cycling within Victoria: An exploration of the needs of competitive cyclists within Victoria. Draft Report. Melbourne, Victoria.

Brown, T. & O’Conner, J. (2007) Real cyclists don’t race informal affiliations of the weekend warrior International Review for the Sociology of Sport . 42 1 83-97


Brown, T., O’Conner,J. & Barkatsas,A. (2009) Instrumentation and motivations for organised cycling: the development of the cyclist motivation instrument. Journal of sports science and medicine. 8, 211-218

So this is what I am basing my judgments on, as well as personal experience.

I look forward to learning something new



Edited for spelling!
 

vernon

Harder than Ronnie Pickering
Location
Meanwood, Leeds
So to summarise, the point I opened with was that I see a lot of cyclists out by me in the dusk, by that I don’t mean dark, but a light which results in most (9/10) cars having their head lights on, wearing black kit. It struck me this was on the increase and I wondered why as most cycle kit comes in a range of colours from dark to light.

So to summarise, the point that you opened with is very different from the modified point in your summary.

What is it with the new fad for buying and riding around in black kit during the winter months? I get that it is slimming and you get to look like a ninja or such like, but a bit of common sense wouldn't go amiss.
Less vanity more visibility!
 
As I was riding out of town last night, I was thinking (yes, just had to sit down after a while...:rolleyes: ) and it was interesting that threads like this about "ninja" cyclists, or 'badly clothed' riders often start with "I see a lot of...etc" It's interesting that we can see these stealth riders, and other people, ie: those in anything other than open air, cannot.
At least I know of two sensible ninjas like Claud and Simon...but I just take a deep breath and let them get on with it...:smile:
If you want to remove the black looks from your gear, just wash it in this:
O2.jpg

and then have a bit of this:
2303676_MEDIUM.jpg


It's a jungle forest out there.:santa: <==I watch out for this red-robed merchant, and stray deer-like stuff...there's something afoot..
 

Fab Foodie

hanging-on in quiet desperation ...
Location
Kirton, Devon.
[QUOTE 2210940, member: 1314"]In fairness, my dad own a bus company in our home village in India and that's coloured in hi-viz. The New Sangha Bus Service. When I take over I'm going to paint all our buses black.[/quote]
If that's the 'New Sangha Bus' I'd hate to see the old one ... ^_^
 
U

User482

Guest
I've just seen a presentation on how they do things in Copenhagen. Dark clothing, no helmets, low fatalities and cycling to work at 35% of modal share.
 
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OP
bianchi1

bianchi1

Legendary Member
Location
malverns
I've just seen a presentation on how they do things in Copenhagen. Dark clothing, no helmets, low fatalities and cycling to work at 35% of modal share.

I think copenhagens cycle structure looks like an excellent model. Would I be correct in believing cyclists are to the main given their own lanes? If so then it seems fair to argue that visibility is less of an issue. It's where there is no traffic segregation that I feel there is a benefit for cyclists to wear an item of Bright clothing.

As a quick aside I see (from Copemhagenize.com) that "The sad fact is that Copenhagen is the only city in the western world where cycling levels are falling. We're now at 35%, according to the City of Copenhagen. "
 

GrumpyGregry

Here for rides.
So to summarise, the point I opened with was that I see a lot of cyclists out by me in the dusk, by that I don’t mean dark, but a light which results in most (9/10) cars having their head lights on, wearing black kit. It struck me this was on the increase and I wondered why as most cycle kit comes in a range of colours from dark to light.

blah

blah

blah

If anyone can provide any EVIDENCE that does not start with “I saw.....I can see....Well I....I’ve never, ” that cycling in dark clothing is as safe as cycling in bright clothing put it on here. If that is your assertion then what is your evidence? Surely you cannot base it on only what you can see or have seen? That leads us to the assumption that the earth is flat..We have to rely on others experiences, research, experiments and writings..so it would be nice if your evidence could start with:

blah

blah

blah

So this is what I am basing my judgments on, as well as personal experience.

I look forward to learning something new

says the poster who started it all off by saying

What is it with the new fad for buying and riding around in black kit during the winter months? I get that it is slimming and you get to look like a ninja or such like, but a bit of common sense wouldn't go amiss.
Less vanity more visibility!

When it talks like a duck troll and walks like a duck troll it's a duck troll.
 
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