Damn Shifting!

[nmfeb70]

Re: The continuing saga of my shifting problem.

So it wasn't the kinks in the cable because within a few days of fitting a new cable & housing, the shifting is still erratic & hesitant - probably the worst it has been. The Clarke's housing I bought was a little too short so I've ordered a 2000mm cable & housing, a few members have already mention a bent hanger or cage which may well be the problem as I had a collision when a kid crashed into my back wheel a few months ago. I'd forgotton about it as there wasn't a problem in the immediate aftermath.
I'm no expert and (thanks to this forum & YouTube) neither am I a novice so if the latest cable fails to satisfy then I'll try to replace the rear mech myself but need a couple of questions answered as I've never replaced this part.

1. Should I replace the hanger before buying a derailleur?
2. What hanger would I need or are they universal as there are dozens available? The rear mech is a Shimano Alivio M4000 long cage.

Many thanks, as always.

 

[Gunk]

I would replace the rear mech and hanger, they’re not expensive

 

[Ajax Bay]

The hanger should be vertical in both dimensions (but particularly laterally) and the threaded hole into which the RD screws needs to be aligned perpendicular to the bike's front/rear axis. Hope that makes sense.
RDs are pretty robust. So definitely make an effort to ensure the hanger is 'right' (as described).
Check that the screws securing the hanger to the dropout are suitably tight.
The thread the hole takes a rear wheel axle. Your LBS may be able to help with a damaged or broken one.
Screw that in and the orientation of the hole, in all 3 planes, will be visually clear, and give you the leverage to bend it into position.
Note that the hanger is aluminium, so any bending ideally needs to be done in one go.
A replacement hanger will cost at least £15.
Finally, wrt RD replacement, any old long cage RD (entry level £30 max but you decide to spend whatever) will fit and shift your 9sp chain.
https://sheldonbrown.com/speeds.html

 

[T4tomo]

Hangers are specific to the bike frame, and there are quite literally hundreds of them, but if you know the model year of the bike you should be able to work it out via the manufacturer / their website. SJS cycles do a stack of OEM ones, but you are relying on your eye and limited information to get an exact match.

Hanger alignment problems usually manifest themselves where one end of the cassette range is indexed nicely and the other jumps around and is noisy, as the misalignment causes the RD to move the correct amount, but in the wrong plane. your LBS local mechanic should have a hanger alignment tool to check alignment and correct it. My one charged me £25 for the task, which sorted an issue, which like you I'd spent a while tweaking at. its quite hard to tell with the naked eye whether the alignment is out.

If its hesitant or delayed shifting but the mech looks to be in the right position, just slow getting there, that would generally be a a sticky cable or RD issue. a replacement RD for what you have is approx. £30 new.

do also check there is no play in the cassette. that sorted one of my mates bikes who had shifting issues, somehow his lockring wasn't fully tightened.

 

[nmfeb70]

Thanks everyone, excellent advice as always. I'm hoping a new cable & housing will do the trick but failing that, I'll check and change the hanger or/and RD.

 

[Lovacott]

Should I replace the hanger before buying a derailleur?

If the drivetrain isn't sitting parallel to the bike, your gears will never be perfect.

The hanger is there to allow perfect alignment of the drivetrain. It's designed to be malleable enough to be bent a few degrees in any direction to facilitate alignment. Hanger alignment will compensate for any minor imperfections in the frame.

Unless your hanger has a great big crack in it, take it to your local bike shop and ask them to do an alignment check.

Either that, or buy a tool off Amazon or Ebay and watch a few videos.

 

[nmfeb70]

If the drivetrain isn't sitting parallel to the bike, your gears will never be perfect.

The hanger is there to allow perfect alignment of the drivetrain. It's designed to be malleable enough to be bent a few degrees in any direction to facilitate alignment. Hanger alignment will compensate for any minor imperfections in the frame.

Unless your hanger has a great big crack in it, take it to your local bike shop and ask them to do an alignment check.

Either that, or buy a tool off Amazon or Ebay and watch a few videos.

Great advice. I'm hoping it will not come to that. I replaced the cable & housing yesterday & the shifting was close to perfection. I wiped the cable with some GT85 on a rag & allowed plenty of (but not too much) cable & housing for movement when turning the handlebars. Right now it's shifting like a dream.
Watch this space!

 

[Lovacott]

Great advice. I'm hoping it will not come to that. I replaced the cable & housing yesterday & the shifting was close to perfection. I wiped the cable with some GT85 on a rag & allowed plenty of (but not too much) cable & housing for movement when turning the handlebars. Right now it's shifting like a dream.
Watch this space!

I've been down the same road as you and hanger alignment makes the world of difference.

I opted for a cheapish tool from Amazon and after a five minute check and re-alignment, my gears worked like a dream.

The slightest twist or bend where the hanger bolts to the frame can equal a major misalingnment in the drivetrain. There is no way to tell with the naked eye.

 

[nmfeb70]

I've been down the same road as you and hanger alignment makes the world of difference.

I opted for a cheapish tool from Amazon and after a five minute check and re-alignment, my gears worked like a dream.

The slightest twist or bend where the hanger bolts to the frame can equal a major misalingnment in the drivetrain. There is no way to tell with the naked eye.

Thanks. Could you possibly send a link? It would be useful as most hanger alignment tools carry quite a hefty price tag!

 

[Lovacott]

Thanks. Could you possibly send a link? It would be useful as most hanger alignment tools carry quite a hefty price tag!

Amazon product ASIN B0873BC995View: https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B0873BC995/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_image_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&th=1

 

[SkipdiverJohn]

The local bike shop wants a kings ransom for a pair of brake pads and they won't let you out of the door until you've purchased a £2000 bike with an extended warranty. Harsh, but true.

That's a shock to the system when you ride an Apollo! If I ever spend anything much on mine I'll end up doubling its cost.

 

[Lovacott]

That's a shock to the system when you ride an Apollo! If I ever spend anything much on mine I'll end up doubling its cost.

I reckon I've spent four times the purchase price of the Apollo on bits and bobs over the last year. I've almost turned it into a half decent bike.

 

[Ming the Merciless]

If the housing is too short and assuming you are talking about the cable outer that feeds into the derailleur. It may mean the cable turns through a sharper angle than it should and that’s causing friction. When did you last replace the cable outers?

 

[Lovacott]

Thanks. Could you possibly send a link? It would be useful as most hanger alignment tools carry quite a hefty price tag!

I should have stated that it cost me £24.00 including delivery. Amazon is a bit sneaky sometimes by charging different people different prices.

It's a good bit of kit and I really only bought it because it was cheap enough to justify the purchase price (cheaper than going to the LBS and paying them to do it for me).

On my east to west of back wheel 180 degree check, there was an 8mm difference between one rim and the other.

The north to south check was pretty much bang on. I did the east to west hanger bending and checked/alingned all opposite points of the wheel until the whole lot lined up exactly as I could get it.

With the back wheel back on, I ran though the indexing and with a quarter turn out of the barrel adjuster, I ran though all 21 gears and it was sweeter than it was when I first bought the bike many moons ago. Maybe the hanger was out all along?

 

[nmfeb70]

If the housing is too short and assuming you are talking about the cable outer that feeds into the derailleur. It may mean the cable turns through a sharper angle than it should and that’s causing friction. When did you last replace the cable outers?
[/QUOTE

If the housing is too short and assuming you are talking about the cable outer that feeds into the derailleur. It may mean the cable turns through a sharper angle than it should and that’s causing friction. When did you last replace the cable outers?

I replace both cable & outers together. I've probably replaced them three times in the last year mainly due to poor shifting (kinks in the cable) and the outer cable being too short. You're correct - the outer housing causing my latest problem was so short I could hardly turn the cable tension barrel.

It's all looking good & shifting is fine now.