Cyclists-who-fail-to-use-dedicated-lanes-could-be-fined ....

[mjr]

It is a default position for all non-cyclists, I would ride a bike but.....

That's a slightly different question to what would get more people riding more. When they asked King's Lynn non-cyclists why they don't ride, the top reason was that they preferred to walk! I probably wouldn't have guessed that, but it's understandable for a fairly compact market town with a few district centres. Lack of cycle facilities was only sixth in that, but there's 40km of OK-ish cycleways (and much more crap) in a town of 43,000 people, so maybe they think they've enough. Certainly, the local cycling campaign spends more time on defending/fixing existing cycleways than pressing for new ones.

For completeness, non-cyclist reasons 2-5 were no bicycle, roads too busy, the weather and "lack of awareness" (?). As you can see, those are deliciously interconnected and slightly different to what people say would get them riding more... fixing any one alone won't be enough, so it's a tough nut to crack combined with a balancing act, but it also means that improving anything would help. I feel it doesn't matter where we start, as long as we start.

I'm sorry to repeat myself, but I've just watched the video in its entirety again, and I am utterly gobsmacked that anyone would need to ask that question. Have we all gone completely barmy?

Maybe not. Maybe it's just me, coming from a different place... a place where I didn't need to ride on the carriageways of fast roads much to get around... a place that isn't perfect and absolutely definitely should teach us that cycleways aren't enough on their own and there are many ways to screw them up... a place called Milton Keynes or a few miles outside it, at least, so I've ridden tons of quiet country lanes and busy rural A roads too, plus lots of other cities since leaving. Cycleways aren't a panacea but they're not hell either.

Roads are useful for more than just transport.

Streets are more than just the carriageway(s) too. Footways, cycleways, verges, banks/berms, hedges/fences, ... The space on the streets has been reallocated many times to reflect changing times and some of them should be reallocated again.

 

[dellzeqq]

Streets can be composed of multiple roads, as pictured.

Wrong. A street is a street and a road is a road. Roads might serve as streets, provided they are places where people meet, linger, recognise each other, feel at home and do the things that make up the every day. The Dutch videos are not of streets.

 

[dellzeqq]

Maybe not. Maybe it's just me, coming from a different place... a place where I didn't need to ride on the carriageways of fast roads much to get around... a place that isn't perfect and absolutely definitely should teach us that cycleways aren't enough on their own and there are many ways to screw them up... a place called Milton Keynes or a few miles outside it, at least, so I've ridden tons of quiet country lanes and busy rural A roads too, plus lots of other cities since leaving. Cycleways aren't a panacea but they're not hell either..

I watched MK being built. I have reason to go back there from time to time. The last time I went I saw 20,000 car spaces in the town centre, most of them with cars in. I saw hundreds of bike racks, and only one bike chained to any of them - my bike. I saw one other cyclist in a morning's visit.

Truly a vision of hell.

 

[Arrowfoot]

... (funny how cars parked on pavements never seems to be complained about, even though it's considerably more common than pavement cycling). ....

Thats a silly remark and a poor comparison, pavement parking and pavement cycling. The latter is an issue with safety.

 

[Markymark]

Thats a silly remark and a poor comparison, pavement parking and pavement cycling. The latter is an issue with safety.

Really? I had to grab my 5yo daughter out of the way of a car that decided it wanted to park on the pavement to not block other cars near a tube station.

Maybe near you these pavement parking cars magically appear there.

 

[Markymark]

People forced into the road to get past nothing to do with safety?

Yep. When my two were younger it can be a nightmare with a pushchair. Especially if the elder one was walking and making us having to cross as awkward places.

 

[summerdays]

People forced into the road to get past nothing to do with safety?

Definitely a safety issue, I used to stand in the middle of the road and stop the traffic on purpose to let my kids by, either that or shout loudly "please try not to scratch the car again as you squeeze past"

 

[Fab Foodie]

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bzE-IMaegzQ

 

[mjr]

Wrong. A street is a street and a road is a road. Roads might serve as streets, provided they are places where people meet, linger, recognise each other, feel at home and do the things that make up the every day. The Dutch videos are not of streets.

The @dellzeqq dictionary... That argument reminds me of the chap in the hitchhiker's guide who successfully argued that black was white.

 

[theclaud]

The @dellzeqq dictionary... That argument reminds me of the chap in the hitchhiker's guide who successfully argued that black was white.

Where in the video do you see anything occurring except vehicles moving from A to B?

 

[mjr]

Where in the video do you see anything occurring except vehicles moving from A to B?

That doesn't determine anything. For what it's worth, I'm in favour of liveable high streets, but not every highway's going to be one soon.

 

[theclaud]

That doesn't determine anything. For what it's worth, I'm in favour of liveable high streets, but not every highway's going to be one soon.

So... where are you suggesting this kind of horrible stuff should go? Is the street where you live OK to turn into a monofunctional transport corridor?

 

[mjr]

So... where are you suggesting this kind of horrible stuff should go? Is the street where you live OK to turn into a monofunctional transport corridor?

It already is, for the most part. It's the A10. This bit is better than most of it, having footway and cycleway, although they're not perfect and need fixes which are only made grudgingly these days. Which is part of my point: these transport corridors already exist but most of them have been brute forced into motorways where people won't walk or cycle because there's no protected space for it and the motorists hassle you too much.

 

[dellzeqq]

It already is, for the most part. It's the A10. This bit is better than most of it, having footway and cycleway, although they're not perfect and need fixes which are only made grudgingly these days. Which is part of my point: these transport corridors already exist but most of them have been brute forced into motorways where people won't walk or cycle because there's no protected space for it and the motorists hassle you too much.

cool. Make what you want of the A10. Just leave London't high streets as high streets

 

[jonny jeez]

Really? I've worked and lived in London for most of my life and most roads are two ways. Yes it's busy. But increasing cyvling provisions will reduce car dependency. It takes will and courage as Steve suggested.

Actually, try taking a ride around the north and south of oxford street. Its a one way rat run leading to nothing but pure frustration. Unless you have a sat nav or the knowledge of a London cabbie you just cannot get where you want....even my cabbie failed due to the road works in the north section and I had to walk to the destination.