Lost of locals walk, jog, exercise dogs etc early before the tourist crowds get there.
We used to live close and you would be surprised how busy it can get
Cyclist escapes prosecution after fatal collision with pensioner
- Thread starter PK99
- Start date
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Lost of locals walk, jog, exercise dogs etc early before the tourist crowds get there.
We used to live close and you would be surprised how busy it can get
I think most people would be astonished to learn that speed limits do not apply to us - particularly as it is a quirk of legislation, not a conscious decision.
RTA 1967
71General speed limit for restricted roads.
(1)It shall not be lawful for a person to drive a motor vehicle on a restricted road at a speed exceeding thirty miles per hour.Cyclists were not able to exceed speed limits.
As speed limits came down, eg 20mph in built-up areas, outside schools etc, cycling above the speed limit became easy. It was not a deliberate legislative choice to exempt cyclists.
My view?
Yes, speed limits SHOULD apply to cyclists.
While they do not apply to us now, cycling well above the speed limit in areas busy with pedestrians is by, any measure, immoral and unacceptable.
Rusty Nails
We remember
- Location
- Living in the slow lane
I'm sure a car driver would have no difficulty at all persuading the authorities that it was OK for him to drive at 30mph because it's not busy that time of the day so less likely he'll hit anyone/anything.
Time Waster
Veteran
You don't just look out for the hazards actually happening but the possible ones.
For example, a pedestrian standing near the edge of a pavement looking at his phone might suddenly turn and step out into the road. You ride a little bit further out and prepare to stop. Perhaps even slow. Not actually easy to spot all hazards but there's things you can do to get better at spotting things.
On my advanced driving course I did straight after passing my test (RoSPA course not IAM course) the lead instructor went out with us on the weekly practicals and from the passenger seat did the commentary we all had to learn to do. He basically listed hazards and potential ones in a commentary. It's second nature for him as a long serving police advanced driver and instructor. High speed pursuit training for the best police drivers like him.
When it was our turn we'd shout out a whole load of hazards, but he'd always point out something we simply never saw. The idea being that safe driving depends on identifying risks and hazards then making adjustments as appropriate.
In the case of pedestrians if you see one close to the pavement edge or facing it then that's a risk. You could simply slow but often moving out further into the lane makes good option. I've had the pedestrian stepping out in front of me but I've never hit one, I've given myself time to react on a few very close passes by moving out further into the lane and/or slowing. I'm not untypical among experienced cyclists IME. Certainly the experienced commuters I've seen.
For example, a pedestrian standing near the edge of a pavement looking at his phone might suddenly turn and step out into the road. You ride a little bit further out and prepare to stop. Perhaps even slow. Not actually easy to spot all hazards but there's things you can do to get better at spotting things.
On my advanced driving course I did straight after passing my test (RoSPA course not IAM course) the lead instructor went out with us on the weekly practicals and from the passenger seat did the commentary we all had to learn to do. He basically listed hazards and potential ones in a commentary. It's second nature for him as a long serving police advanced driver and instructor. High speed pursuit training for the best police drivers like him.
When it was our turn we'd shout out a whole load of hazards, but he'd always point out something we simply never saw. The idea being that safe driving depends on identifying risks and hazards then making adjustments as appropriate.
In the case of pedestrians if you see one close to the pavement edge or facing it then that's a risk. You could simply slow but often moving out further into the lane makes good option. I've had the pedestrian stepping out in front of me but I've never hit one, I've given myself time to react on a few very close passes by moving out further into the lane and/or slowing. I'm not untypical among experienced cyclists IME. Certainly the experienced commuters I've seen.
Time Waster
Veteran
Does that now mean bikes will need to be supplied with speedometer if this happens? Motorised vehicles have them by law I believe which allows for speeding to be prevented.
If cyclists are to keep to the speed limits or face enforcement then would bicycles have to have some form of homologation for the speed measuring device? With the customisation and variation of bikes how would this be done?
Not that it's a defence or reason not to but could such an extra expense retrofitting bikes with such a speedo be an issue? Would it need calibration? I'm curious as to how this aspect of a suggested law work.
If cyclists are to keep to the speed limits or face enforcement then would bicycles have to have some form of homologation for the speed measuring device? With the customisation and variation of bikes how would this be done?
Not that it's a defence or reason not to but could such an extra expense retrofitting bikes with such a speedo be an issue? Would it need calibration? I'm curious as to how this aspect of a suggested law work.
- Location
- Somewhere wet & hilly in NW England.
GPS?
Rusty Nails
We remember
- Location
- Living in the slow lane
I hope not. I've just been building up a 16" wheel bike for my 5 year old grandaughter. She's only just ditched the stabilisers and I'm not sure if she's up to understanding speed limits yet, and I'm not going to get her a Garmin.
Legs
usually riding on Zwift...
- Location
- Staffordshire
Well done for completely missing the point. All three of the posts I quoted seemed rather fixated on how the park would be bristling with tourists and families.
Time Waster
Veteran
Are GPS units likely to be accepted? Not sure they are for car speedo use. Why would they specify something for bikes not allowed. For cars.
You know what I mean, cars have requirements for things like speedo partly for legal reasons allowing speed prosecution I reckon. Very historical but requirements are strict. Why would they not base the cycle rules on car speedo systems?
Time Waster
Veteran
Not likely to be considered responsible if caught speeding.
BTW if at 5 she ever gets to break the speed limit anywhere, please let me know who she is. I'll put a speculative bet on her winning a cycling Olympic gold medal straight away. If accepted i reckon even a fiver bet would get good odds!😀
PedallingNowhereSlowly
Senior Member
Am I right in thinking car speedometers are checked at MOT?
The main problem I have with speed limits for cyclists are the next logical steps. Calls for:
I don't understand why, in this instance, the possibility of prosecution for furious cycling was not discussed. Whilst I don't agree with speed limits for cyclists, I do think that regularly training at high speed (for a bicycle) in a public park is questionable and that this type of incident is an inevitibility whilst it is allowed to go on.
The main problem I have with speed limits for cyclists are the next logical steps. Calls for:
- Cyclists to be caught by speed cameras and automatically sent FPNs. That means cyclists will have to have their 'vehicles' registered and display Vehicle Registration Marks.
- Calls for cycles/HPVs to be subject to MOTs
I don't understand why, in this instance, the possibility of prosecution for furious cycling was not discussed. Whilst I don't agree with speed limits for cyclists, I do think that regularly training at high speed (for a bicycle) in a public park is questionable and that this type of incident is an inevitibility whilst it is allowed to go on.
Time Waster
Veteran
Do you not think the real point is that the risk was obviously there or this accident wouldn't have happened? One or many makes no difference.
On a related point, accidents where cyclists hitting a pedestrian results in a death is so rare. Do you think that when it does happen the first point to look at closely is the action of the cyclist as the pedestrian is the most vulnerable party. After understanding the issues with the cyclist's actions or decisions and taking preventative actions for the future then you look to the pedestrian issues.
imho that club should consider alternative ways to train or places to train.
PedallingNowhereSlowly
Senior Member
Are these your words or do you have a source?
I don't think legislation to apply speed limits to cycles/HPVs is necessary and it in the current climate where cycling is being repeatedly villified, would only serve to further sour drivers attitudes to cyclists and cause even more conflict out there on the roads. Such legislation will reinforce the false notion that cycling is dangerous to other road users.
As for cyclists being able to exceed 30mph ... yes, easily done. I could do it solo on a touring tandem on the flat years ago and at the rate my fitness is improving, probably will be able to again in the near future. Down a hill? Easily. I exceed 30 mph downhill in multiple places on most of my rides*.
It is not true to say this is only an issue because of the wider introduction of 20 mph speed limits.
*Not on any (3|2)0 mph restricted roads
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Time Waster
Veteran
You shouldn't need to use absolute speed to prosecute cyclists if the relevant laws were specifically written to cover issues with dangerous cyclists. It's the choices made that create the risks that can cause such accidents. Surely new legislation could allow for prosecution for such risks and dangerous choices without absolute speed being needed.
