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UphillSlowly

Making my way slowly uphill
Hypothetical question, though some of you may have the data. If you were to do an event that was 5-6 hours long and it was a race, what sort of Intensity Factor would you expect?
(I assume that this is simply Normalised Power divided by FTP)
 
OP
OP
Norry1

Norry1

Legendary Member
Location
Warwick
Hypothetical question, though some of you may have the data. If you were to do an event that was 5-6 hours long and it was a race, what sort of Intensity Factor would you expect?
(I assume that this is simply Normalised Power divided by FTP)

Depends on the nature of the event.

The longest race I've done this year is just under 3 hrs and my IF was 0.94 https://www.strava.com/segments/1429938?filter=overall
My average power was 74% of FTP
 
I had Boltinghouse in my Calendar tonight and I just got home in time to do it all, including the extended cooldown, in the light. I headed out as usual down Bullock Road but the rest periods were such that I cut down to the old A1 at Stilton. I would normally cut down to the Old A1 further south but I was conscious (although I had a front light) of not going so far south that the cooldown would be in the dark.

Ignoring one bizarre interval. I think I ran out of legs towards the end.
image


You can probably see from the power target graph my one bizzare incident. As I was coming to the end of an interval in Stilton I saw a Merc stopped in the middle of the road between parked cars either side, blocking it for a van who wanted to go through. The Merc driver seemed to be determined to get into a space that wasn’t there or maybe she was trying to pull right to block the van driver more. So I held back and let her do whatever she wanted. As I approached easing off the power she still wouldn’t budge or even indicate, despite the van driver being patient and giving her plenty of room to come through. After a bit of track standing, I eventually over took on her right (drivers side). At which point she yells, “don’t undertake” (that would have been her left, the opposite side
:exploding_head:
). A which point the van driver said, “Don’t worry mate I saw what she done”. Had she been trying to goad me into undertaking so she could teach me a lesson I didn’t need
:neutral_face:


image


Light was fading fast and I thought about fitting the front light I had in my pocket but I decided not too but it wont be long before I have too.

image


image
 
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Norry1

Norry1

Legendary Member
Location
Warwick
IF of 0.94 for such a long time seems quite impressive. Was it very flat? Or quite lumpy?

It was very lumpy.

The on/off nature of racing was the thing I found hardest to deal with when I first started. It often leads to a very low average power but a high NP.

What event are you (theoretically) thinking about?
 

UphillSlowly

Making my way slowly uphill
It was very lumpy.

The on/off nature of racing was the thing I found hardest to deal with when I first started. It often leads to a very low average power but a high NP.

What event are you (theoretically) thinking about?

I was being curious. You may have seen elsewhere that I caught COVID when I went to Italy to do the Maratona. So I finished it but couldn't exert myself at all. Passo Giau to 2 hours.

So this week I wanted to make sure I wasn't just a crap cyclist so I pushed myself on a lumpy ride (118 k, 1800 m elevation). Went pretty hard and was surprised how high my IF was for a >5 hour route. Probably won't do anything like that again, because it was a bit daft and I should be aiming for zone 2 to improve endurance.

So I guess I wanted to know how hard did I actually go. Could I have gone harder?
 

IrishAl

** Full Time Pro **
Location
N.Ireland
That definately looks like a workout to be scared of. I hope it goes well. :smile:

I'm sat looking out the kitchen window and with 12 hours plus of non-stop rain any thoughts of venturing out on the bike for me are well and truly dashed. No bad thing as I'm due a rest day but the rest days rarely fall on a weekend and its feels odd not going out on the bike on a day off work.


My session yesterday was a fitness test with efforts of 3 minutes and 10 minutes with a 15 minute recovery in between. Looking at my power curve for the last 2 years I knew what my targets were. I went really deep on the 3 minute effort...nearly brining up my breakfast on the roadside. The wheels almost came off on the 10 minute effort - you can see in the charts where I almost gave up (I did for a few seconds actually before I gave myself a shake). Really glad I pushed through as I hit PBs on both and intervals.icu tells me I've a new FTP of 306w (4.05 wkg which would put me back in Cat A in Zwift if they still use that system). I've a 20 min test due on Tuesday so that will tell if the FTP increase is real!!
So yesterday was my 20 minute power test and after Saturdays 3 and 10 min test I had a new estimated FTP of 306w to chase. I back calculated that I needed to hit an average of 322w for the 20 minutes. I was working away in Dublin so I had the bike packed in the car and a route planned for that evening - the route was out of the city centre into the hills south of Dublin. I had a long hill in mind that would allow a good long effort with no traffic lights etc. My warm up wasn’t ideal as getting out of the city was stop / start and I arrived at the bottom of the hill apprehensive of the 20 minutes ahead. Anyway cutting to the chase I averaged 318w, giving a calculated FTP of 302w (4.03 w/kg) which I’m very happy with considering I started the training plan with an FTP of around 285w and weighing in 7-8kg heavier back then with power to weight of 3.45 w/kg.

It wasn’t the perfect 20mIn effort - i probably went out too hard and suffered in the second half and was tempted to quit once or twice. The big dip in power 3/4 of the way in was a sharp hairpin where I was on the brakes to keep the bike on the right side of the road and make the turn - I was thankful for the mini-rest. 😀

1690407169691.png
 
OP
OP
Norry1

Norry1

Legendary Member
Location
Warwick
So yesterday was my 20 minute power test and after Saturdays 3 and 10 min test I had a new estimated FTP of 306w to chase. I back calculated that I needed to hit an average of 322w for the 20 minutes. I was working away in Dublin so I had the bike packed in the car and a route planned for that evening - the route was out of the city centre into the hills south of Dublin. I had a long hill in mind that would allow a good long effort with no traffic lights etc. My warm up wasn’t ideal as getting out of the city was stop / start and I arrived at the bottom of the hill apprehensive of the 20 minutes ahead. Anyway cutting to the chase I averaged 318w, giving a calculated FTP of 302w (4.03 w/kg) which I’m very happy with considering I started the training plan with an FTP of around 285w and weighing in 7-8kg heavier back then with power to weight of 3.45 w/kg.

It wasn’t the perfect 20mIn effort - i probably went out too hard and suffered in the second half and was tempted to quit once or twice. The big dip in power 3/4 of the way in was a sharp hairpin where I was on the brakes to keep the bike on the right side of the road and make the turn - I was thankful for the mini-rest. 😀

View attachment 700419

Good stuff :okay:
 
So yesterday was my 20 minute power test and after Saturdays 3 and 10 min test I had a new estimated FTP of 306w to chase. I back calculated that I needed to hit an average of 322w for the 20 minutes. I was working away in Dublin so I had the bike packed in the car and a route planned for that evening - the route was out of the city centre into the hills south of Dublin. I had a long hill in mind that would allow a good long effort with no traffic lights etc. My warm up wasn’t ideal as getting out of the city was stop / start and I arrived at the bottom of the hill apprehensive of the 20 minutes ahead. Anyway cutting to the chase I averaged 318w, giving a calculated FTP of 302w (4.03 w/kg) which I’m very happy with considering I started the training plan with an FTP of around 285w and weighing in 7-8kg heavier back then with power to weight of 3.45 w/kg.

It wasn’t the perfect 20mIn effort - i probably went out too hard and suffered in the second half and was tempted to quit once or twice. The big dip in power 3/4 of the way in was a sharp hairpin where I was on the brakes to keep the bike on the right side of the road and make the turn - I was thankful for the mini-rest. 😀

View attachment 700419

Nice effort 💪👍 and Wicklow Hills is a particularly beautiful place for it 😎

Looking on my tiny phone, the warm up doesn't look to have that 5min blow out period to burn off your anaerobic energy. You've only really got that turbo boost energy once and it burns off fairly quickly. So you don't want it polluting your sustainable FTP power for an hour. The basic theory is take 95% of the 20mins after the burn off in the warm up. But depending on the quality/efficiency of the burn off period it could be 90-95%.
With my old coaches FTP there was two 1min max periods, not quite the 5mins, so I found 92% would give me a better number to train off, without overtraining fatigue.

Also if you are planning to train indoors its likely your outdoor FTP will be higher than what you can achieve indoors without overtraining fatigue.
 

Ming the Merciless

There is no mercy
Location
Inside my skull
Hypothetical question, though some of you may have the data. If you were to do an event that was 5-6 hours long and it was a race, what sort of Intensity Factor would you expect?
(I assume that this is simply Normalised Power divided by FTP)

For 5-6 hours not racing I’ve had an IF of 0.85. For racing I’d say 0.9 IF or above.
 

IrishAl

** Full Time Pro **
Location
N.Ireland
Nice effort 💪👍 and Wicklow Hills is a particularly beautiful place for it 😎

Looking on my tiny phone, the warm up doesn't look to have that 5min blow out period to burn off your anaerobic energy. You've only really got that turbo boost energy once and it burns off fairly quickly. So you don't want it polluting your sustainable FTP power for an hour. The basic theory is take 95% of the 20mins after the burn off in the warm up. But depending on the quality/efficiency of the burn off period it could be 90-95%.
With my old coaches FTP there was two 1min max periods, not quite the 5mins, so I found 92% would give me a better number to train off, without overtraining fatigue.

Also if you are planning to train indoors its likely your outdoor FTP will be higher than what you can achieve indoors without overtraining fatigue.

Good points there and cheers for the feedback. My warm ups usually consists of a 5 min Z4, a 30sec Z5 and then a 10s all out sprint but for this ride just getting out of the city took me half an hour and I wasn’t really feeling like I was up for a deep effort so I just hit the 20min fresh. As you say I could have polluted the outcome by having some reserves/freshness in the legs, on the other hand the warm up was that bad that I wasn’t quite ready for the big effort when it came. I’m going to work off this new number for a bit - its an increase of 8w from 4 weeks ago so not a mega increase and hopefully it will push me in the coming weeks. The full “warm up” plus effort below….you can see from the cadence the amount of traffic/lights i was running into and unlike most cyclists round Dublin I was stopping for the red lights lol

967B56BB-14BB-402F-B4B6-C4D044F90CD6.jpeg
 
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UphillSlowly

Making my way slowly uphill
Decided to try some harder intervals today, as won't cycle again until the weekend. Easier than threshold intervals which is what I did before the COVID-affected Maratona in July. Not really sure what I'm working towards but curious to see effects of a session like this once a week (with other rides being zone 1 and 2).
Screenshot_20230808-204658_Chrome.jpg


Intervals were2x 8 reps of 60 sec 121% FTP followed by 60 sec OFF. Used https://flux-web.vercel.app/ on my laptop.
 

IrishAl

** Full Time Pro **
Location
N.Ireland
Decided to try some harder intervals today, as won't cycle again until the weekend. Easier than threshold intervals which is what I did before the COVID-affected Maratona in July. Not really sure what I'm working towards but curious to see effects of a session like this once a week (with other rides being zone 1 and 2).
View attachment 701999

Intervals were2x 8 reps of 60 sec 121% FTP followed by 60 sec OFF. Used https://flux-web.vercel.app/ on my laptop.

Looks like a testing workout.
 
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