Cycling Workouts: Discussion/Encouragement/Sharing/Banter

[nagden]

Ah I’ve been audaxing 12 years, with 10/11 of those years including the longer ones.

Do not think that speed does not matter, it does, but it’s your all day pace that matters. You still want to include the high intensity and not just think you only need to do the Z2 for audax. Z2 should still be your foundation but do include the intensity as Polarised does. When you hit a long or steep hill you’ll be glad you’ve done the intensity.

Because they are such long durations even small increases in speed make a difference.

At 18 km/h moving average you have a maximum of 2 hours 22 mins stopped time, and 11 hours 8 mins moving.

At 20 km/h moving average, you have maximum 3 hours 30 mins stopped time, with 10 hours moving.

At 22 km/h moving average, you have maximum 4 hours 24 mins stopped, and 9 hours 6 mins moving. That’s 2 hours less riding, than at 18 km/h, plus much more time to stop eat and have a break and digest food.

These are true moving averages rather than the ones reported by GPS set to auto pause when stopped at junctions etc. Auto pause often inflates moving averages by 1 or 2 km/h, good for the ego, but not your calculations for time limits.

The other mistake made in audax is not eating and drinking enough. This is often because what you can get away with on a 3-4 hour ride does not scale up at audax durations. Thus performance can drop off a cliff later on. You often see this with sportive riders new to audax. They speed off into the distance early on, riding tempo and above, only for you to pass them as they crawl along 6-7 hours later, having burnt their matches and realised gels don’t work for the duration.

Thanks once again for a very informative reply. I had an idea of the pace required but you have refined it very well. Onwards and upwards.

 

[bobinski]

So I squeezed in 70 minutes of Z2 with Coco before breakfast. My God, it’s boring! I’m not sure I’m cut out for RoboPacer rides on Zwift - you have to pay attention to the ‘action’ so that you don’t slip off the back or front of the group, but there’s never anything interesting happening. From now on, I might just do a 67% FTP workout while watching TV for this kind of session.

It’s really hard when it’s a small group too and I think your z2 pace puts you with the faster pacers.
I choose 2w/k or less and stick something in the tele knowing if I fall off the group I have some watts leeway to pace back on.

 

[Norry1]

So I squeezed in 70 minutes of Z2 with Coco before breakfast. My God, it’s boring! I’m not sure I’m cut out for RoboPacer rides on Zwift - you have to pay attention to the ‘action’ so that you don’t slip off the back or front of the group, but there’s never anything interesting happening. From now on, I might just do a 67% FTP workout while watching TV for this kind of session.

I know what you ean about the Robopacers. I sometimes find the concentration needed to stay with the group is enough to keep me engaged. Other times ....... not so much.

 

[Norry1]

This was on 11th March. I managed it but scored it a 10/10 for difficulty.

Just about to do it again but efforts now at 281W. Will report back afterwards.

Well I managed it but it was tough.

 

[CXRAndy]

So I squeezed in 70 minutes of Z2 with Coco before breakfast. My God, it’s boring! I’m not sure I’m cut out for RoboPacer rides on Zwift - you have to pay attention to the ‘action’ so that you don’t slip off the back or front of the group, but there’s never anything interesting happening. From now on, I might just do a 67% FTP workout while watching TV for this kind of session.

That why I use big group rides with lots of chat going on to pass the time. I can now add an additional screen to watch YouTube or a film

 

[Ming the Merciless]

My God, it’s boring! I’m not sure I’m cut out for RoboPacer rides on Zwift

Z2 is boring on a turbo, but emphasises how boring turbos are compared to outdoors. I only use turbo:for high intensity where I don’t have to concentrate on traffic or road surfaces.

 

[HLaB]

I forgot to post last night, I had a book ended under/over session. I got a new laptop (after deciding my 8year old one was too slow and unreliable) and spent too long trying to get my training program to bypass windows 11s security. After googling I found it was a problem a few users of Windows 11 encounter. When I eventually got it running I forgot my headband and my glasses quickly steamed up so I couldn't see much of the new laptop anyway 😂

I am protecting my left knee a bit so I went to the same flat virtual world as the other night and when my glasses steamed up I decided just to sit in the not so Sweet Spot area for the unders.

 

[BurningLegs]

I love a sweat band @HLaB It’s been a revelation for me. Before using one I’d always considered them a bit “Mr Motivator” but I used to use a towel very regularly and it would smear my glasses and just be a general nuisance. I barely use my towel now 🙂

 

[Legs]

…I might give this little beauty a go at the weekend. It looks impossible to me - the last minute is asking for 175% FTP - but the challenge will be to last through as much of it as possible.
View attachment 683602

Lo and behold, it was impossible! My legs just completely buckled on the third set, which was alternating minutes at 300W/330W. On a really good day I might have got to the end of that set but probably no further - to show willing, I fast-forwarded on and completed two more high-power minutes from the last part of the session.

 

[Norry1]

Lo and behold, it was impossible! My legs just completely buckled on the third set, which was alternating minutes at 300W/330W. On a really good day I might have got to the end of that set but probably no further - to show willing, I fast-forwarded on and completed two more high-power minutes from the last part of the session.

There must be a way to "model" the workout against your current metrics (wPrime etc) to see if it is theoretically possible. I don't know how to though

 

[Legs]

Good thinking, @Norry1 . This was what it did to my W’, btw!

 

[bobinski]

Lo and behold, it was impossible! My legs just completely buckled on the third set, which was alternating minutes at 300W/330W. On a really good day I might have got to the end of that set but probably no further - to show willing, I fast-forwarded on and completed two more high-power minutes from the last part of the session

You could perhaps do a 4d test and have more accurate numbers to work with? Just a thought

 

[Ming the Merciless]

Lo and behold, it was impossible! My legs just completely buckled on the third set, which was alternating minutes at 300W/330W. On a really good day I might have got to the end of that set but probably no further - to show willing, I fast-forwarded on and completed two more high-power minutes from the last part of the session.

FTP is a poor predictor of a riders abilities above threshold. Thus some can cruise 175% for a minute, whilst others like you have struggled.

 

[Legs]

FTP is a poor predictor of a riders abilities above threshold. Thus some can cruise 175% for a minute, whilst others like you have struggled.

Definitely agree on the first. I wish I’d got to the point of struggling on the 175% - I topped out on the 150% minute (470W) today. My best indoor minute is 627W on fresh legs, just over 200% - hitting that sort of power after half an hour or so of intense minutes and threshold U/Os is out of the question!

 

[bobinski]

Well, 3h 35 min of z2 on the turbo over last few days turned into a bit of a slog. It didn’t help that the Kiss D group ride I started today rode at a pace that put me in tempo power wise for much of the time though my HR stayed in z2. Fitness or fatigue? Bailed to be cautious and actually spend some time with the family and cook Sunday lunch 😁