Cycle helmets are useless?

[ufkacbln]

A more protective helmet would need to be heavier and less ventilated. Yet this penalty is seen as an argument against upping the protection offered

Which is another dichotomy....

Person A states they would not wear a heavier helmet that offered more protection because they would find it hot and sweaty - valid argument
Person B states that they would not wear a helmet because they would find it hot and sweaty - invalid argument

 

[Mugshot]

My interest here is that I presume most would not be in favour of motorcyclists being allowed to assess personal risk and make a personal decision regarding whether to wear a helmet whereas the opposite seems to apply to pedal cyclists. Whilst I appreciate that the evidence is strongly in favour of the efficacy of motorcycle helmets I am struggling to understand the principle of two diametrically opposed positions on what is ostensibly the same issue

I do agree with you that having a test requiring a cycling helmet to pass a 12mph impact is inadequate. Given that cycling around these parts largely consists of a ball-achingly slow ascent followed by a hurtling descent, I would certainly support speed rating for them.

I don't see it as being the same issue I'm afraid, could you explain it to me please? Are we solely talking about freedom of choice here.
Even the most basic twist and go scooter will be capable of doing around 30mph all day everyday, more powerful machines are vastly in excess of this of course. Protective clothing is also recommended for motorcycle riders, would you suggest that this be introduced for cyclist too if helmets were made compulsary?

 

[numbnuts]

Which ones are these?

 

[nickyboy]

I don't see it as being the same issue I'm afraid, could you explain it to me please? Are we solely talking about freedom of choice here.
Even the most basic twist and go scooter will be capable of doing around 30mph all day everyday, more powerful machines are vastly in excess of this of course. Protective clothing is also recommended for motorcycle riders, would you suggest that this be introduced for cyclist too if helmets were made compulsary?

As a society, we are happy to allow cyclists to assess the risks and rewards associated with helmet wearing whereas we aren't with motorcyclists.

Protective clothing is a matter of personal risk assessment for a motorcyclist so a pedal cyclist is entirely consistent with this.

 

[Learnincurve]

Am I the only one who thinks that's up to the individual, and so long as the government does not interfere like a overbearing grandmother into a simple thing that should be personal choice, and forces everyone to wear one, then all is right with the world?

 

[Profpointy]

OK, to tease out the separate arguments:

1 do cycle helmets increase safety ?
(well, apparently not, but let's say perhaps they do in some parallel world)

2 Do they increase safety more than some arbitrary cut-off point where we feel (individually or nationally) that wearing one is a good idea. Perhaps the same level as we might support "pedestrian" helmets?

3 Is wearing a helmet for this activity a greater nuisance than any benefit - and very related to this if the current helmets are ineffective , then should we encourage (or even enforce) wearing "better" helmets? Some (idiot) medics were saying we should wear full face helmets - which would to my mind make cycling impractical.

4 Should the state "force" people to take safety precautions to protect merely themselves.
and if so, where does the "slippery slope" end? Banning cycling altogether? banning rock climbing - why helmets?


For the record, I used to wear a helmet cycling, and thought those who did not were idiots. Having now looked at Q1 - looks like I was wrong - so I no longer wear one.

 

[Sara_H]

OK, to tease out the separate arguments:

1 do cycle helmets increase safety ?
(well, apparently not, but let's say perhaps they do in some parallel world)

2 Do they increase safety more than some arbitrary cut-off point where we feel (individually or nationally) that wearing one is a good idea. Perhaps the same level as we might support "pedestrian" helmets?

3 Is wearing a helmet for this activity a greater nuisance than any benefit - and very related to this if the current helmets are ineffective , then should we encourage (or even enforce) wearing "better" helmets? Some (idiot) medics were saying we should wear full face helmets - which would to my mind make cycling impractical.

4 Should the state "force" people to take safety precautions to protect merely themselves.
and if so, where does the "slippery slope" end? Banning cycling altogether? banning rock climbing - why helmets?


For the record, I used to wear a helmet cycling, and thought those who did not were idiots. Having now looked at Q1 - looks like I was wrong - so I no longer wear one.

I used to wear a helmet too when I first started riding. Just took it as read that it was the right thing to do, given how very heavily they're promoted. Like you I was very scathing of anyone too stupid not to wear a helmet.

Wasn't until I started frequenting forums such as this (among others) that I discovered the other side of the debate. Now I choose not to and am frankly horrified at the rudeness that my informed decision is often met with and the level of bainwashing that seems to have happened on this issue.

 

[Mugshot]

As a society, we are happy to allow cyclists to assess the risks and rewards associated with helmet wearing whereas we aren't with motorcyclists.

Protective clothing is a matter of personal risk assessment for a motorcyclist so a pedal cyclist is entirely consistent with this.

As has been pointed out both here and elsewhere the risks and rewards associated with non helmet wearing motorcylists weren't adding up very well against the KSIs. The incidents of KSIs between cyclists and motorcyclists isn't remotely comparable, so the wearing of helmets as a form of protection isn't really comparable either.
As has been suggested perhaps we should compare it to something a little more closely matched when it comes to head injuries, jogging, walking or getting out of the bath maybe?

 

[Mugshot]

I used to wear a helmet too when I first started riding. Just took it as read that it was the right thing to do, given how very heavily they're promoted. Like you I was very scathing of anyone too stupid not to wear a helmet.

Wasn't until I started frequenting forums such as this (among others) that I discovered the other side of the debate. Now I choose not to and am frankly horrified at the rudeness that my informed decision is often met with and the level of bainwashing that seems to have happened on this issue.

Nearly the same as this, I never wore a helmet when I was riding 25 and more years ago (who did?) yet managed to avoid dying. When I returned to cycling I chose not to wear a helmet, when I bought my road bike a few years ago my wife was very keen for me to have a helmet so I bought one and wore it for a while, then stopped. Then I started reading up and frequenting forums like this and found I perhaps wasn't quite so stupid as other cyclists I'd met seemed to think.
Like you the level of rudeness I sometimes face from other cyclists, as well as the general sympathetic shrug of "well we've tried, but he just wont listen, the idiot" I get from friends beggars belief. More frustrating is the absolute refusal to listen to anything I have to say about it, it is all and always dismissed as nonsense.

 

[Mugshot]

As an aside, I bought my road bike from my LBS, and bought my helmet from the same shop at the same time. When I enquired about them the owner told me that all helmets were the same and offered the same level of protection, the only difference was how well ventilated they were.

 

[MontyVeda]

a mate of mine came out with the old "If you don't wear a helmet you're an idiot." So I countered it by suggesting a helmet should also be worn when hill/fell walking... what with all the trip hazards, slip hazards, lose terrain and the possibility of falling rocks from over hanging crags. Once again i was called an idiot for suggesting such a stupid thing. It seems that I'm an idiot either way.

 

[Mugshot]

a mate of mine came out with the old "If you don't wear a helmet you're an idiot." So I countered it by suggesting a helmet should also be worn when hill/fell walking... what with all the trip hazards, slip hazards, lose terrain and the possibility of falling rocks from over hanging crags. Once again i was called an idiot for suggesting such a stupid thing. It seems that I'm an idiot either way.

I've mentioned it here before and it probably isn't worth repeating but I will anyway.
A friend, that until recently regularly berated me for not wearing a helmet told me he was very proud that his son, who is around 8, always puts his helmet on before he goes out to play on his bike. I asked him if he also wore it when he was out playing on his scooter. My friend replied, angrily, "NO!" before stomping off telling me I was stupid and pathetic and it was a waste of time trying to talk to me about such things.

 

[Profpointy]

I've mentioned it here before and it probably isn't worth repeating but I will anyway.
A friend, that until recently regularly berated me for not wearing a helmet told me he was very proud that his son, who is around 8, always puts his helmet on before he goes out to play on his bike. I asked him if he also wore it when he was out playing on his scooter. My friend replied, angrily, "NO!" before stomping off telling me I was stupid and pathetic and it was a waste of time trying to talk to me about such things.

During a tiresomely similar debate on another forum, someone mentioned the "strangled children" scenario - they'd been climbing trees it seems - tragic all the same. Then comes the strange thing - a pro-helmet pundit stated "they had been abusing their helmets" - by climbing trees in cycling helmets. It was OK for helmets to "obviously" increase cycling safety, but it was "abuse" to assume the same item would help climbing trees.

 

[numbnuts]

I hear what your all saying, but I would be scared not to wear one, and I'm sure sods law would apply as soon as I went out without a helmet.

 

[Sara_H]

I've mentioned it here before and it probably isn't worth repeating but I will anyway.
A friend, that until recently regularly berated me for not wearing a helmet told me he was very proud that his son, who is around 8, always puts his helmet on before he goes out to play on his bike. I asked him if he also wore it when he was out playing on his scooter. My friend replied, angrily, "NO!" before stomping off telling me I was stupid and pathetic and it was a waste of time trying to talk to me about such things.

I guess us non helmet wearers have all got stories like this. Really frustrating and annoying. As others had said, I don't mind folks making comments when they're coming from a point of ill informed ignorance, but when they then refuse to listen when you when you start to talk facts, or even ramp up the offensiveness (why do they do that?), that really gets up my nose.