lane
Veteran
Yes and now the EU are purchasing Sputnik and happy to use that it would seem.
COVID Vaccine !
- Thread starter kingrollo
- Start date
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Yes and now the EU are purchasing Sputnik and happy to use that it would seem.
Clumps of cases are not evidence of causal link.
"if you flip a coin a million times, 10 consecutive heads will show up several hundred times"
https://www.oreilly.com/radar/the-inherent-clumpiness-of-randomness/
This is a fantastic compilation of spurious correlations:
http://www.tylervigen.com/spurious-correlations
Ajax Bay
Guru
- Location
- East Devon
I'll take March @Ajax Bay
My prediction from 21 Jan was pretty good then
. The programme is winkling out the last over 50s, and spilling over into some under 50s, and ramping up the second jabs (ahead of the 12 week gap template) - over 400k on Thursday.
Ajax Bay
Guru
- Location
- East Devon
On the risks, review my post from Wednesday: https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/covid-vaccine.267960/page-224#post-6366282
I mused a fortnight ago whether there was similar experience of CVT with the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine (or Moderna). I agree that the damage of reacting with bans on the slightest concern misses the disproportionate impact on vaccine acceptance and therefore will result in thousands of lives lost and a significant delay to the return to social and economic 'life'. This is the sensible balance that the EMA considers in its continuance of temporary approval to use, disregarded by EU members, recognising that the threat to the individual from COVID-19 is an order of magnitude greater than any causality-unproven side effect. It's still possible that there is a causal link.
The vast majority of these adverse CVT experiences, some fatal, are reported in women of child bearing potential, a proportion of whom will be on the pill (non-Catholic countries). This younger female cohort will have mostly been vaccinated with Ox-AZ so you'd expect the miniscule number of CVT occurences after Pfizer to be even lower. In addition they will mostly be health care workers, at greater exposure to catching COVID-19, so it's possible that some were already infected (but asymptomatic) before they received the vaccine, which might have been the trigger for the event, as blood-clotting is a known clinical symptom of COVID-19.
Note that, because of the early uber-precautionary approach (there was insufficient evidence directly from the Phase 2 RCT trial that the vaccine is safe for over 65s) all the Ox-AZ vaccine in some countries (eg Germany) was used for health care workers and CEV under 65s - using Pfizer and a little Moderna for over 65s. In that younger cohort there is a preponderance of females. In Germany and France (say) only a minority in that cohort will have received Pfizer.
Earlier this month the UK reported some post vaccination events like this: they were evenly split between Pfizer and Ox-AZ vaccine recipients (11-13 iirc). The UK had not differentiated in age or cohort terms with the two vaccine makes. The incidence was at the same level that one would expect in normal times aiui.
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Eric Olthwaite
Guest
Refusing the vaccine on the basis of potential side effects is like refusing to let an ambulance take you to the hospital on the basis that it might crash on the way.
Andy in Germany
Guru
- Location
- Rottenburg am Neckar
Depends on the side effects and how likely they are. I have a colleague I thought was being silly until I found she's had some rather nasty side effects from previous vaccines and amongst other possible issues has a tendency to blood clotting.
mjr
Comfy armchair to one person & a plank to the next
- Location
- mostly Norfolk, sometimes Somerset
AZ have not covered themselves in glory either, letting too many results dribble out of regulators instead of announcing them in full themselves. There were always going to be doubtful eyes watching them due to their relatively limited recent involvement in vaccines. https://www.newyorker.com/news/dail...-much-confusion-about-the-astrazeneca-vaccine
classic33
Leg End Member
I take it you've never suffered strong, adverse side effects to any medication making that comment.
Eric Olthwaite
Guest
My comment was aimed at the vast majority of the sceptics, who have no such personal experience giving them reason to be wary of the Covid vaccine. Of course, I accept that those who do have such a reason to be wary, are in a very different position.
matticus
Guru
I can say that I've been in an almost-fatal RTA*, and I agree with Eric s comment.
During treatment I let the experts make the decisions (despite millions of potential side-effects)
*Due to blood clots, mainly!
classic33
Leg End Member
How do you know who has genuine reason to be bothered and who may just be guided by the latest news.
the people with genuine concerns are in a tiny minority. Are there any others apart from you on here who have suffered badly?
Eric Olthwaite
Guest
I'm struggling to believe that a significant proportion of the population has a history of strong adverse reaction to previous vaccines.
Because those previous vaccines made it through clinical trials programmes specifically designed to weed out vaccines that trigger strong adverse reactions in a significant proportion of those vaccinated.
Ajax Bay
Guru
- Location
- East Devon
Eric
Noone is suggesting that "a significant proportion of the population has a history of strong adverse reaction to vaccines."
But a very few people, like @classic33 , knows they have significant issues and the medical advice he received was equivocal. Nevertheless he bravely went for the first dose, with a strong adverse reaction. Vaccine acceptance is very strong in UK: vaccine hesitancy is not. But more work is still needed to help some communities push through their doubts. Not just in those communities' interest: in the whole population's interest.
Noone is suggesting that "a significant proportion of the population has a history of strong adverse reaction to vaccines."
But a very few people, like @classic33 , knows they have significant issues and the medical advice he received was equivocal. Nevertheless he bravely went for the first dose, with a strong adverse reaction. Vaccine acceptance is very strong in UK: vaccine hesitancy is not. But more work is still needed to help some communities push through their doubts. Not just in those communities' interest: in the whole population's interest.
