Coronavirus outbreak

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Me and MrsD were talking about that just yesterday. The sugar shortage:wacko: Why? At the time we had 2 young kids and MrsD did lots of baking so that was her main problem.
I dont recall bog roll being a problem but as kids the Liverpool Echo was fine for us so it doesnt seem such a tragedy.
Look at this selfish git taking more than his share.
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I have a dastardly plan,not to look 70.So i can go out.First i will buy some of those ripped jeans.then a holey jumper,one that looks like moths have eaten it.Jeans low low down so you can see my Primark underpants,A baseball cap backwards and finally a carrier bag over my head.I will walk the streets repeating innit innit over and over again,oh i forgot i must have a mobile phone i my hand so i can bump into people.Nobody will notice me ,problem solved.
Some pensioners dress just like that in Eccles, except for the reverse baseball cap, they wear it the correct way round. You need a Sports Direct carrier bag too.
 

RecordAceFromNew

Swinging Member
Location
West London
I am certainly not in a position to understand the details of the strategies for virus management.

But, on the face of it (dare I say it..) the government's position makes certain sense. With no vaccine it seems logical that any measures will only delay the spread of the virus. But the actions range from almost none to total lock down. And the other side of the coin is disruption to lives and the economy. Which is an important factor, a big recession will harm people as well. Plus liberal democracies won't take to indeterminate lock-downs in the same way as possibly the Chinese system might. Lock down now and it is possible that when it is really required then people will have become complacent and unwilling to comply.

It is a tight-rope. And governments will only get recognised when they get it wrong. And not recognised in a good way.

I know nothing about virus management either, but hopefully am equipped with a little bit of common sense, and some fact finding ability which may or may not always be 100% accurate.

I think there are some factual issues with your post - but having read some of your posts, I suspect you won't mind me saying what I think they are, and I am saying it here only because such fallacies are the very basis of the decisions made by our Government, tragically:

"No vaccine" does not logically follow that "any measures will only delay the spread of the virus". There is still no vaccine for SARS (or the more recent MERS and EBOLA), but SARS was declared contained by the WHO in 2003, one year after it broke out. It infected 8000 people killing nearly 10% of them. It was "starved" out by isolation, like what China is doing with COVID-19 - do you know that China only found 25 new cases today, while Italy found 3500? I appreciate many do not believe Chinese statistics, with or without good reason, but if you look, you will see Korea is going the same way as China. If Italy had not been complacent, and had learnt the lessons from China, the Italian number would likely have been close to zero today, just like Hongkong's. So no, it is not true that measures will only delay the spread of the virus - measures can eliminate virus quickly leading to relatively very few if any ever getting infected, without a vaccine, and for a long time.

The above fallacy is the very basis of the Chief Medical Officer's and Chief Scientific Advisor's rationale for getting "herd immunity".

You say "a big recession will harm people as well." That is patently true, however the question I would like you to consider, is whether an economy would be less damaged if only 5000 were infected, or 50,000 (the very minimum I wager Italy will end up with), or perhaps 40 millions (the minimum to achieve "herd immunity" in UK as our Chief Scientific Adviser has been suggesting)? Why would the former be a less preferred outcome, by earlier intervention, when it causes fewer deaths, allows earlier relaxation of intervention, less disruption etc.? How can that be inferior economically? We are only two weeks behind the bloodbath that is Italy - is that preferable economically?

You wrote "liberal democracies won't take to indeterminate lock-downs in the same way as possibly the Chinese system might. Lock down now and it is possible that when it is really required then people will have become complacent and unwilling to comply." I don't know what sort of period you are talking about that you think is required for "lockdown", but even in Hubei, they unblocked Qianjiang, a city of 1 million, two days ago. All Apple stores are now open in China apparently. In Hongkong, there was never even a lockdown per se, simply most people who could work from home did so, schools closed, mass gatherings stopped etc. What I do know, is that people in Hongkong are very glad they are not in Italy, or Britain. What makes you think Brits would think differently when they look across the pond towards USA in a few weeks' time? I hear people in Italy are angry that their directives from the Government came so late!

Apart from the Government's dangerous intention to court "herd immunity", which is utter nonsense because it will only be achieved after over 60% of the population are infected, and therefore the death of millions of Brits, it seems to me the government has only provided sound bites of aims. Aims like delaying the number infected, flattening the curve so that hospitals are not swamped etc. These are what Americans call "motherhood and apple pie" - notions that no one with a brain will ever disagree with and criticise, but are actually meaningless in terms of information on their strategy.

Knowing the strategy is important, because what the government is doing, or more accurately not doing, is anything but flattening the curve - we can all see that without serious intervention the curve is growing exponentially. What can possibly be the benefit of that?

In my view nobody knows what the government's "position" is - if we knew we would have understood how on earth a delay in social distancing e.g., will delay the explosion of the number infected, when it obviously WILL lead to far more getting infected and die, taking the economy/society longer to recover. How can it possibly be beneficial socially and economically? Do you know?

If you don't know, why would you say "the government's position makes certain sense"?
 
i like the answer. Care to expand?

I’ve got the money in four accounts, (2 x Barclays and 2 x Marcus /Goldman Sachs) but all way ove the £85k protection for each account.
If the government is willing to bail out airlines it won't and never as let a large bank go under. If worried you can easily transfer out to more banks to come under the 85k but tbh if all banks crash then fscs will also crash and your money would be worth f all in anycase, given it is world wide that means no money anywhere, so gold will be worthless as well, it really isnt worth worrying about.

There will be a redistribution of money but given the massive enveloping scale of the madness you would have to presume that if company a colapses from this, then it will be a dominoo effect, so as as been seen by banks suspending mortgage payments you would expect companies to accept longer payment terms on mass to avoid every company experiencing cash flow problems.

Banks are pretty much at the top of the tree so if they go on mass, everything is gone and we start going back to swapping cows for beans.
 

RecordAceFromNew

Swinging Member
Location
West London
With a huge number of businesses, both large and small, at risk, what is the likelihood of some kind of banking crisis?

Asking from a purely selfish point view. We are waiting to exchange contracts on a house purchase within a fortnight, and I have quite a lot of money sitting in a couple of banks. Could my house money be at risk?
Unlikely, but if you are worried put them in separate banks. Each is backed by the government to the tune of £85k iirc.
 

Johnno260

Guru
Location
East Sussex
I ventured to the local superstore yesterday for stuff we needed, bread milk etc I have since dug out our breadmaker and recipe book so house will soon smell of fresh bread.
Anyway back on track, the wheeled a pallet of bog roll into the store with the plastic wrap still on it, what I witnessed next was tbh a little shocking, people literally tore the wrapping off and emptied the thing it was tragic.
I had a good laugh as did the guy next to me, and the horde got a little mad at that so words got exchanged.
It’s pathetic, if people kept their heads then all this stockpiling wouldn’t be an issue.
 
It is possible that supermarkets will be in bother and left holding shoot loads of shoot roll after this, no bugger will need to buy any for years. Good job it hasnt a use by date.
 
My Mrs is due to fly to England on Thursday to visit a relative and sort matters domestic. I think it will be a close run thing as the French government ramps up the measures next week.
As with everything related to this virus the socio economic impact may be felt long after the worst has passed. Ryanair operate a service from Limoges to Manchester year round and a summer service from Poitier to Manchester. The alternative is a TGV from Tours that has an Air France flight number to Paris CDG and then a BA or Air France flight to Manchester.
Limoges airport is tiny, its a flying club that was expanded via private money and highly contentious EU grants, British people use it and the French go on holiday to London from there. Poitiers is not much larger and both airports would be scrubbed if Ryanair does not survive the strain.
Airlines and routes take a long time to build and though the true owners of the fleets want them using to keep the money coming in they are not running charities.
If the restrictions increase and remain in force I think governments are going to have to borrow by giving tax holidays and emergency coding to individuals and companies.
 

marinyork

Resting in suspended Animation
Location
Logopolis
What I would like to know is the prognosis for asthmatics - but for me my Asthma is well controlled - excercise brings it on - hence my 4 inhaler regime !
All the stats lump asthmatics with COPD or more serious respiratory problems.

It is quite a diverse condition. One of the reasons is some asthma patients take some very heavy steroids (many types of tablets, infusions, injections (not used so much now) and types of inhalers), along with frequency and dose that pushes down and weakens the immune system. Others take different medications and lower doses of steroids. My father was believed to have chronic asthma until about a year and a half ago where another diagnosis of a similar condition was given. For six years under that diagnosis he had quite a lot of steroids in most forms (unfortunately with some very bad consequences). It's been noticeable the last couple of winters he's been in hospital less (but still a hell of a lot) and it's not been for pneuomonia, chest infections so much/at all. Which he had 2/3/4 times each autumn/winter. Or just a reoccurring mush. He's still a massively at risk group for flu as he ticks lots of boxes, but the steroid one really does make a bit of difference and for recovering/lingering etc.

If you are concerned I would recommend ringing an out of hours pharmacy, being incredibly polite and flattering go through your medication and asking flu risk. You could even frame it in terms of managing asthma. They may ask you to ring back when it's quiet e.g. 10pm. You may get unlucky and have a pharmacist a bit less interested/talky on flu. Or one who's a bit cranky or bad tempered (they are overworked). Because there isn't so much time often in GP surgeries many pharmacists and staff have heard/met a hell of a lot of people with asthma. The problem with talking to people about asthma is if there are other sides to it as there is yours, people often immediately say 'severe' to someone else (heard this three times this week) and conversation shuts down (it was meant to, that's why the person said it).
 

RecordAceFromNew

Swinging Member
Location
West London
Folks I have read numerous articles on the subject, for no better reason than that I could. I just want to let you know that this one is exceptional, by far the best by a country mile.

It seems the traffic for the article is so heavy, that the direct link above can take a while for the whole document (especially all the graphics) to load, so I am including a separate link to my own pdf file (c 22MB) below in case you have difficulties with that:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/407x4eqq8zidtre/Coronavirus.pdf

If you have never come across it, I strongly recommend you take the trouble to read it. It explains pretty much everything that is important and relevant regarding the subject, with clear justification, and written in an easy to understand and concise way. It has been well received widely, and consequently has been translated by readers into numerous languages, as can be found within the first link above.

It happens to expose why our government's strategy is nothing less than disastrous, and why China, Korea, Italy did what they did, and why France and Spain decided to do so too yesterday.

Britain and our cousins across the pond are the odd ones out - we will pay very very dearly for it.

I know you can and will decide whether the article makes sense - I want you to read it so that you can protect yourself and your family with the confidence that you are doing the right things, in spite of our so called government, and perhaps it can help you convince others to do what is best for them too.

Take care!
 

Milzy

Guru
*STOLEN FROM LINKEDIN*

7 million verified deaths per year from smoking....No Problem.

3 million verified deaths per year from alcohol.....No Problem.

250,000 verified deaths per year from medical errors in the United States alone......No Problem.

3500 verified deaths of sick people from a new virus .....SHUT THE ENTIRE WORLD DOWN!

More people die from snake bites and people still walk through long grass.
WORLDSGONEMAD.
 

Pale Rider

Legendary Member
that China only found 25 new cases today,

This is a startling fact - even if it's only somewhere near true.

I wonder if any control measures have much impact and the virus will just run it's course whatever we do.

The experience of China, and some other countries, may suggest the virus fizzles out after reaching its peak quicker than we are currently expecting.
 

MarkF

Guru
Location
Yorkshire
Walked to my local Aldi for some cat litter, got there just before 10, car park full, car park blocked, 100's of irritated wannabee shoppers outside. Really rude people, mostly fat, one bloke intent on filling his 2 trolleys with the entire stock of wood burner and bollocks to anybody else, many were of the same mindset, they made me sick.

Walking back I passed my newly married neighbours house and remembered that they are both cabin crew.:sad:
 
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