matticus
Guru
I read that as explaining the human behaviour - not excusing it.
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roubaixtuesday
self serving virtue signaller
Noting that you didn't address any of the points made, every sector needs to have a realistic framework in place if they are to follow the rules. For instance, we are now paying low income workers who have to self isolate, rather than expecting them to starve their families.
It's totally unrealistic IMO for unsupervised 18yos in the circumstances freshers are placed to universally follow these rules.
We should both be doing more to support them, more to mitigate (testing!) and more to enforce if we really want this to work, or moving to an online term from home with reduced fees. Blaming the individuals doesn't help.
The plan for return of students looks to have been very simple: "Cross our fingers, hope for the best". Yet another failure to think ahead and plan.
[Edit: actually "Grab their cash, cross our fingers, hope for the best" might better get across the root causes]
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- Location
- Somewhere wet & hilly in NW England.
I thought I'd done 3) & 4).
1) Yes, they are at low risk but they can spread it and the less spreaders we have the better.
2) And? I genuinely don't know what you are getting at there - sorry.
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The Uni's should be revising the fees not the State. If the Uni's then have a viability problem then the State should step in as per other businesses.
It seems a bit of a contradiction to ask for more enforcement to help the students when some aren't abiding by the rules themselves. If I've misunderstood your enforcement point my apologies.
- Location
- Somewhere wet & hilly in NW England.
Have to say that I do agree with the BoE economist that undue pessimism will hold the economic recovery back.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-54355395
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-54355395
roubaixtuesday
self serving virtue signaller
I was trying to make the point that if we expect compliance, we need lots of carrot and a bit of stick.
What we've done instead is dump the donkeys in a field then complain that they're grazing. It's crazy.
roubaixtuesday
self serving virtue signaller
That if you confine an 18yo for months on end then suddenly set them free, you should expect them to let off a bit of steam.
mjr
Comfy armchair to one person & a plank to the next
- Location
- mostly Norfolk, sometimes Somerset
See, it's completely farking confusing! Those sounds like boroughs or districts not counties!
Like a wireless abseiler? Like a plane abruptly separated from its wings? Like a drunken clown who's just had one leg cut off at the knee?
I've had it, I'm immune.
fossyant
Ride It Like You Stole It!
- Location
- South Manchester
It's going to happen and has with new Uni students - probably quite tame to a normal year. It had been expected by the Uni's but I don't think they expected how fast it spread. We've got over 170 confirmed cases, have just got 1500 kits for the students to use (results in a couple of days) - I'd expect a whole lot more.
We've had parents threatening the Uni with legal action - TBH the students were free to go (they were prevented initially) but had they actually gone out, having been told to isolate due to exposure, they would have been landed with a fine as Manchester is in enhanced conditions - so what do we do. Let them go out, with a bunch of coppers ready to fine them. They have had a good deal - £50 Asda voucher, 2 weeks free rent, personal hygene products handed out free, negotiated Asda and Amazon free delivery, and have staff on hand 24/7. It's taken a few days to organise, but all this is now in place for the further infections. The student's can leave for home, but they must do it covid securely - i.e. in a car !
We've had parents threatening the Uni with legal action - TBH the students were free to go (they were prevented initially) but had they actually gone out, having been told to isolate due to exposure, they would have been landed with a fine as Manchester is in enhanced conditions - so what do we do. Let them go out, with a bunch of coppers ready to fine them. They have had a good deal - £50 Asda voucher, 2 weeks free rent, personal hygene products handed out free, negotiated Asda and Amazon free delivery, and have staff on hand 24/7. It's taken a few days to organise, but all this is now in place for the further infections. The student's can leave for home, but they must do it covid securely - i.e. in a car !
The current University mess looks to have done no-one any favours even north of the border look to have been happy to go along with the push to get them back in. I think you are spot on about the money let's face it it's not about much else. One VC in a interview even commented that having posted on SM and Youtube about the "covid measures" it had taken applications went up. I thought it was for everyone's safety. One thing for sure the current publicity is not going to do them much good with fee's and cost's the way they are now.
Uni's still have a lot to learn about that you can't carry on treating you're paying customers like they do.
To say they are suppose to be centres of learning they don't look to have done much reading around this or much planning.
mjr
Comfy armchair to one person & a plank to the next
- Location
- mostly Norfolk, sometimes Somerset
The word "undue" is doing a lot of heavy lifting in that claim!
He seems to ignore that "fears about the future" are mainly due to discouraging news about the present and that the "vertiginous 20% [rise] in the third quarter" undoing the second-quarter lockdown drop is starting to look like it may have been bought at a very great cost in both state debt and new covid cases.
We will never know whether the fears were "undue" unless we ignore them - but is it responsible to ignore the fears and not attempt to mitigate them in case they are due fears? I bet no-one will dare do that and so Mr Haldane's headline claim can never be proven or disproven. It's useless noise and great politicking for the Bank to overrule the NHS in running the show.
mjr
Comfy armchair to one person & a plank to the next
- Location
- mostly Norfolk, sometimes Somerset
I still don't understand how a vehicle pumping out its cabin air unfiltered is really "covid securely" except in a sarcastic sense of the phrase.
roubaixtuesday
self serving virtue signaller
I suggest that the best way to engender economic optimism is a clear strategy to keep the virus under control, and a clear strategy to deliver a Brexit deal protecting trade with the EU as far as possible.
If give the government 4/10 and 2/10 respectively.
Economic pessimism is not "undue", its directly caused by govt incompetence and ideology.
fossyant
Ride It Like You Stole It!
- Location
- South Manchester
Well, it's got to be better than sat on public transport when you are 'positive' - thats what they are getting at.
Just a thought. All these students are complaining about being 'restricted' in University Halls. What's happening to those in privately owned 'halls' - e.g. what's known as 'The Student Castle' or 'Circle Square' these are massive flat complexes - students would be 'stuffed' there as there is no-one to look after them.
mjr
Comfy armchair to one person & a plank to the next
- Location
- mostly Norfolk, sometimes Somerset
Press conference live now:
View: https://mobile.twitter.com/MunishDass/status/1311335944432345090
Rumour is that conference 100 is the start of a new weekly Johnson waffle.
View: https://mobile.twitter.com/MunishDass/status/1311335944432345090
Rumour is that conference 100 is the start of a new weekly Johnson waffle.
