Coronavirus outbreak

[Rocky]

I can understand the reasoning behind this, but again with several reservations:

Are we talking about anyone 70+ as vulnerable, or the clinically extremely vulnerable?

Are the restrictions designed to protect the elderly or the NHS (and by extension the government)? The shocking situation in care homes sadly makes me suspect the former is not 100% true.

Is it easier to just have broad age based restrictions rather than a more precise definition, which also takes into account vulnerability factors such as sex, ethnicity and obesity levels, but which would be much more controversial and divisive to implement?



I declare an interest here as a fit and relatively healthy 70+ with a distrust of authority and blanket restrictions, but who will try to obey the rules.

I’m not really talking about any specific group. I’m coming to the conclusion that many people don’t fully understand what could happen to those people who end up dying of Covid. If they did, perhaps they’d behave in a different way and take notice of the social distancing guidelines that were being flouted in the post I was responding to.

As an aside, I think many of our frontline healthcare staff are going to need support when this is over. My son has already seen far more death in the last two months than in his previous 28 years. It is part of the job but you wouldn’t be human if it didn’t affect you.

 

[marinyork]

As an aside, I think many of our frontline healthcare staff are going to need support when this is over. My son has already seen far more death in the last two months than in his previous 28 years. It is part of the job but you wouldn’t be human if it didn’t affect you.

Tsunami is a word used locally. The pentuple whammy of workers, recovered patients, people who lockdown has made them worse (regressed months or years), people who lockdown has developed new mental health problems and finally the latent demand of those who didn't seek help before the crisis (a very interesting group).

 

[oldwheels]

I can understand the reasoning behind this, but again with several reservations:

Are we talking about anyone 70+ as vulnerable, or the clinically extremely vulnerable?

Are the restrictions designed to protect the elderly or the NHS (and by extension the government)? The shocking situation in care homes sadly makes me suspect the former is not 100% true.

Is it easier to just have broad age based restrictions rather than a more precise definition, which also takes into account vulnerability factors such as sex, ethnicity and obesity levels, but which would be much more controversial and divisive to implement?



I declare an interest here as a fit and relatively healthy 70+ with a distrust of authority and blanket restrictions, but who will try to obey the rules.

Cannot remember the context but was some politician or perhaps "commentator" not caught on camera saying "So what does it matter if some pensioners die?"

 

[Rusty Nails]

I’m not really talking about any specific group. I’m coming to the conclusion that many people don’t fully understand what could happen to those people who end up dying of Covid. If they did, perhaps they’d behave in a different way and take notice of the social distancing guidelines that were being flouted in the post I was responding to.

As an aside, I think many of our frontline healthcare staff are going to need support when this is over. My son has already seen far more death in the last two months than in his previous 28 years. It is part of the job but you wouldn’t be human if it didn’t affect you.

Sorry for getting the full meaning of your post wrong.

From what I've read I agree 100% on the unpleasant nature of Covid deaths, and suspect that many NHS staff will suffer from a form of PTSD or depression over the coming years.

 

[Rocky]

Sorry for getting the full meaning of your post wrong.

My fault for the clumsy wording......apologies.

 

[Rusty Nails]

Cannot remember the context but was some politician or perhaps "commentator" not caught on camera saying "So what does it matter if some pensioners die?"

The story going round some time ago was that this, or a variation of it, was said by Dominic Cummings.

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...dominic-cummings-argued-to-let-old-people-die

 

[oldwheels]

The story going round some time ago was that this, or a variation of it, was said by Dominic Cummings.

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...dominic-cummings-argued-to-let-old-people-die

Sounds likely.

 

[Joey Shabadoo]

In Stirling today, a 22 year old victim of the virus was buried. Unable to attend the funeral, around 50 family and friends had a procession through the town centre with a piper. There was no social distancing, they walked arm in arm and hugging each other. A few people phoned the police who said there was nothing they could do to stop them.

 

[Salty seadog]

I'd offer to run the country but I'm too busy currently with my polyamorous lover and my mathematical models.

Hi Neil....

 

[Inertia]

The story going round some time ago was that this, or a variation of it, was said by Dominic Cummings.

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...dominic-cummings-argued-to-let-old-people-die

I really hope it isnt true. Its one thing to debate the difficult issues and make tough decisions and know that loss is inevitable, its another to be callous about it.

 

[tom73]

I’m not really talking about any specific group. I’m coming to the conclusion that many people don’t fully understand what could happen to those people who end up dying of Covid. If they did, perhaps they’d behave in a different way and take notice of the social distancing guidelines that were being flouted in the post I was responding to.

As an aside, I think many of our frontline healthcare staff are going to need support when this is over. My son has already seen far more death in the last two months than in his previous 28 years. It is part of the job but you wouldn’t be human if it didn’t affect you.

Very much so they will experts in PTSD gave warnings early on about this.
For many Allied HCP's who rarely if at all see people die who now find themselves working full time in critical care areas.
They will need help for sure it will have been a very shape learning curve.
Most staff welfare is down to each trust but this will be way too big and way too important to leave it up to "try and see what help you can get" approach. It's going to need a national approach and its not just the only mental health support that will need one after this is over.

 

[Pat "5mph"]

Trouble is, I suspect many can't see that but do see the cold and lonely reality of not being able to talk to anyone. I many older people will be genuinely frightened, about either becoming depressed or losing their mental faculties because they're on their own.

This may be true for many, I don't doubt it. Still, would they rather die? I don't have the answer, of course.
I have the answer from the elderly I am talking to when I do my community volunteering: they say they have support (which I know is true because I know the families) but they simply don't care about the corona, it's not going to affect them because a) the war b) they are independent c) if they get it they get it.
Even when they are told they could give it to their spouses, they still don't care.

In Stirling today, a 22 year old victim of the virus was buried. Unable to attend the funeral, around 50 family and friends had a procession through the town centre with a piper. There was no social distancing, they walked arm in arm and hugging each other. A few people phoned the police who said there was nothing they could do to stop them.

Meanwhile, Agnes (name changed), 72 years old, tells me her nephew that lives in London has driven the 500 smash miles and back to Glasgow to be at a family friend's funeral.
Next door to me, now the families and kids mingling are 3!
Yes, because Kimberly never left the house, so it's safe I pick my daughter up to stay with me (been working till last week), my girlfriend, her son.
Ah, her sister and kids are coming too, they haven't left their house for weeks either, apart from shopping and such...
We are doomed!

 

[Rusty Nails]

This may be true for many, I don't doubt it. Still, would they rather die? I don't have the answer, of course.
I have the answer from the elderly I am talking to when I do my community volunteering: they say they have support (which I know is true because I know the families) but they simply don't care about the corona, it's not going to affect them because a) the war b) they are independent c) if they get it they get it.
Even when they are told they could give it to their spouses, they still don't care.

Meanwhile, Agnes (name changed), 72 years old, tells me her nephew that lives in London has driven the 500 smash miles and back to Glasgow to be at a family friend's funeral.
Next door to me, now the families and kids mingling are 3!
Yes, because Kimberly never left the house, so it's safe I pick my daughter up to stay with me (been working till last week), my girlfriend, her son.
Ah, her sister and kids are coming too, they haven't left their house for weeks either, apart from shopping and such...
We are doomed!

It happens.

People break the rules/guidelines, not just the people next door, but Princes, politicians, Medical Health Officers and Government Advisors working on lockdown guidelines.

You can only limit it by public censure because the only way to stop it is to become the sort of autocracy that is so far away from the freedoms we take for granted.

 

[mjr]

I think I would be moving out of Glasgow if I could! Or really hiding away from those people at least.

It seems Belgium is going for a "up to 4 family and friends" plan as part of unlocking. https://www.brusselstimes.com/all-n...xit-plan-what-having-4-guests-actually-means/

 

[tom73]

More time wasting
Only now are NHSX worried people won't use the app due to privacy safeguards so are racing to fix it.
https://www.theguardian.com/technol...prove-contact-tracing-apps-privacy-safeguards

A total rethink maybe on the cards and they are thinking apple/google way was better after all.
https://appleinsider.com/articles/2...m-reportedly-mulls-switch-to-apple-google-api

But wait it just got worse Hancock has now put Dido Harding in charge of test, track and trace programme.
Remember her ? She the former CEO of TalkTalk who on her watch suffered a major data breach and failed to properly notify affected customers. She also did all them interviews and appeared clueless about just how bad it was.

Oh well can't get much worse can it