Coronavirus outbreak

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nickyboy

Norven Mankey
I was responding to claims above. I agree it's not insurmountable, but let's not pretend he is a big British manufacturer who gave a toss about UK workers, unlike some I know who have been making medical kit in their UK factories, working shifts around the clock, complying with guidelines but still workers risking their lives more being out, during this whole time without diverting staff to seek publicity.


Plenty of ire to spare, but Dyson ain't the messiah, you know!
I do find it rather unedifying that, at the moment, people are using this as an opportunity to raise long held issues with particular companies. Particularly as this one is a company actually doing something to try to help get us out of this crisis.

As I said, there are loads of companies that could do a lot more than they are doing. They just choose not to. They are far more deserving of criticism than Dyson
 

Unkraut

Master of the Inane Comment
Location
Germany
would you mind editing your post to expand here, for benefit of new readers on mobiles who overlook your name, please?
No problem, in sentence form total number of tested cases in Germany is 36,508. This is an increase of 4954 since yesterdays figures, the infection rate is 44 per 100 000 of the population and 198 people have died.

(Quicker than trying to mess around with a copy and pasted column!)
 

roubaixtuesday

self serving virtue signaller
I despair at Journalistic spin and expect better of the Telegraph:

Covid symptom tracker app suggests 6.5m people in UK may already have coronavirus

Within the first 24 hours, some 650,000 people had signed up – and an initial analysis revealed that 10 per cent of them showed symptoms of the virus.

If extrapolated to the whole country, it could mean that around 6.5 million people currently have coronavirus, the first time an estimate based on real-time data has been attempted.



FFS this is not a random sample it is a self selected group most likely weighted toward those with symptoms and wanting to report them.

Simple extrapolation to full population is plain stupid

Well quite.

Though why you expect better of a paper that published Johnson and Booker for years is a mystery.
 

Skibird

Senior Member
I’m genuinely not blind to the dire situation of the self employed and I can understand your point of view entirely.

However, a builder, with the best will in the world, could well be infectious and asymptomatic. If he’s coming and going from peoples houses, possibly the elderly/infirm/with underlying health conditions, how can he genuinely guarantee that he won’t leave something behind???

A paper mask isn’t going to hack it
As I said, every situation is different, which is why I will not judge anyone and neither should you or anyone else as you can't possibly know the circumstances (It's not just about finance). You would like to assume, that if it was not essential to some degree, the customer would not want the work to go ahead anyway but "IF" it can be done by adhering to the rules, then it is the builder/plumber etc and the customers decision. There are just too many different scenarios to make judgements, and which why, at present, hardware stores are still open.
 

mjr

Comfy armchair to one person & a plank to the next
News from France: surveys show people agree with the lockdown, but feel it should have been done earlier. Confidence in the government was described in voice-over as "in free-fall" ( « chute libre » ).
 

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deptfordmarmoset

Full time tea drinker
Location
Armonmy Way
News from France: surveys show people agree with the lockdown, but feel it should have been done earlier. Confidence in the government was described in voice-over as "in free-fall" ( « chute libre » ).
I'd expect a UK poll to give broadly similar results. Well, without the chute libre, of course. My faith in the good sense of the UK electorate has been badly shaken.
 

Wobblers

Euthermic
Location
Minkowski Space
The fatality of 41 is surprisingly low. I suspect it is incomplete or something, and will probably catch up tomorrow.

I've been looking at the data, and it's showing something interesting. I've had to rely on using the number of deaths to track the epidemic, because I don't believe the testing in any European country is sufficiently reliable to give meaningful results. One issue with doing this is that deaths have a 2-3 week delay from infections, so this tells us what was happening two or more weeks ago.

First, let's compare what's happening in Italy, France and the UK for the data as of 25th March:

covid-data.png


I've used the scientist's favourite - the log plot as it shows very clearly if the epidemic is increasing exponentially or not. A straight line means the epidemic is still growing rapidly. On the other hand, if the line curves to the right, the epidemic is slowing down. The data is plotted from the time that ten deaths were reported - this removes the noise present in the early stages so that the trends can be more clearly seen.

For the first two weeks, Italy showed a growth rate of 20% (doubling every 3.5 days). This has slowed to around 5%
(doubling every 2 weeks). It looks like Italy is turning the corner, at last: the growth is no longer exponential. I take marinyork's point that many deaths are likely not being recorded. There's no real way to account for that: the data is what we've got. I suspect that under reporting can't account for slow down, so the trend is likely genuine.

France looks grim. The number of deaths is doubling every three days - and there's no sign of this growth rate slackening off. I fear that France will turn out worse than Italy: if France continues on this trajectory, it'll overtake Italy in about a week.

The UK is just odd. A few days ago, I predicted that there would be over 1000 deaths by this weekend. I'm happy to say that I was wrong - it's going to be much less (and sad that I wasn't more wrong).

There are two ways I can explain this. The first is that there was a major change in behaviour at the start of the month. This was when people were being exhorted into washing their hands and paying careful attention to hygiene. Could these measures actually be working to reduce the number of transmissions? That would imply that the hand-oral route is the major infection route rather than aerosol.

The other explanation is that the case fatality rate has dropped. This most likely would be due to improved treatment protocols, so that the critically ill are more likely to survive. This is something I've no knowledge about - @Brompton Bruce, would the prof be able to shed some light on this?

The frustrating thing is that without a robust testing strategy in the community, we have no idea which is the more likely explanation. This lack of testing means we're essentially blind: it will take a long time before anything we do to reduce R0 will show up in the data (that's probably the reason behind BoJo saying that the restrictions will be reviewed in three weeks, as that's just about the time in which changes can be expected to show up).

There is one other sting in the tail: if the favourable decrease of death growth rate is down to improved treatment, this will rapidly unwind if the NHS becomes overwhelmed. A sharp increase could be expected at that point.
 

mjr

Comfy armchair to one person & a plank to the next
There are two ways I can explain this. The first is that there was a major change in behaviour at the start of the month. This was when people were being exhorted into washing their hands and paying careful attention to hygiene. Could these measures actually be working to reduce the number of transmissions? That would imply that the hand-oral route is the major infection route rather than aerosol.
BBC's 2018 documentary "Contagion!" modelling showed the likely effect of hand-washing on a hand-transmitted pandemic. Because it was repeated recently, it's available to watch for 17 days more at https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p059y0p1 - in case your life doesn't yet have enough pandemic in it.
 

MarkF

Guru
Location
Yorkshire
We had a pallet of Krispy Kreme stuff delivered yesterday, enough for a doughnut or two for everybody. The pallet was stripped by a few NHS staff carrying a much as they could.

Today Matalan delivered a pallet of pop, to me, that's take one if you thirsty. Nope, a few staff emptied it carrying as many outers (12 cans) as they could in just a few minutes.

Panic shoppers? Pfft!
 
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