Coronavirus outbreak

[tom73]

Seeing as he's been remanded, he may get exposed to the Coronavirus in prison. I reckon its going to go around like wildfire in there.
I've already read reports prisoners aren't reporting any symptoms they get, for fear of being isolated in their cells.

Not hearing anything at the moment though one prison has had an officer test positive. Health care staff are not stupid and they will soon spot anyone swinging the lead. The big question is how to isolate possible large numbers. Seg can only take so many and you can’t move them out some need to be in there. For safety
Most cells are over crowded so single cell‘s are not easy to come by. Hardly any of the prison estate have what you can call “hospital wings” I know HMP Hull has one.
Isolating infectious out breaks is possible Mrs 73 had to manage a TB out break in the past. But it’s the numbers together with an ageing prison population and other health risk factors eg high numbers of COPD is common that’s the big issue. Just as a side note your classed as old in prison as 55 or over.

It may get to the point of shutting down and isolating whole wings. But that‘s not easy and will tie up staff.
The other issue is most are on short term sentence so may get infected not knowing and then come out. Hence why this is everyone problem and not a case of sod them just lock them down.

Add in all the other health , mental health stuff staff are dealing with it’s just going to end up one big mess. Just as on the outside the ones who will suffer most are the most vulnerable.

We then have filling gaps as staff get ill. Staff numbers are piss poor as it is. Will not be simple fix given the checks you need.

Critically ill cases can’t be kept inside and will need to the shipped out. Even having high numbers on oxygen will be impossible even though prisoners can routinely be put on oxygen. The numbers will make it impossible to manage safely.

Grim to think of it. There was some unrest in Italian prisons after restrictions on visiting.
How will the illegal drugs be smuggled in if visiting is limited? I have visited prisons and my experience was of a canteen setting with tables arranged about 8 foot apart. No screens or segregation.

large scale unrest is possible but unlikely. It’s possible to lock down whole wings and the drill is well tested. The the prison service have a National response they send in the tornado team. Who are highly trained and don’t mess about. Mrs 73 seen them in action health care follow them once they gain control.
Eating is mostly done on the wings or in the cells now dining halls have gone.

I guess it would have an impact on drugs coming in through visits, but obviously not the only way drugs get in. They'll always get smuggled in somehow.

Stopping visits so stopping drugs won’t be why most will get upset about. Many live for visits so stopping is a big deal. Drug getting in via visits are falling more are getting found doing it.

“They'll always get smuggled in somehow” yes that‘s your “stuffers and packers“ (let you work out which is which)
They get found quickly too on the whole via the boss chair as it gets called. Overall drug numbers are not great. But the prisons using new measures have seen big improvements. These measures are being rolled out be it slowly.

The public health threat to everyone if this gets a grip in prisons will be big. It’s not impossible to have 1000 plus people infected living round the corner from you In one go.

 

[marinyork]

The public health threat to everyone if this gets a grip in prisons will be big. It’s not impossible to have 1000 plus people infected living round the corner from you In one go.

A very lengthy post, but I find it interesting there's not comment about what's happened in prisons in Iran or other countries.

 

[randynewmanscat]

Ah, with it now.

Your conclusion is the correct one, but of course, it's not the one I want to hear.

Indeed it's not the one, it's obvious you know what the right choice is though. 👍

 

[RecordAceFromNew]

I think in the UK people will start staying indoors when the London deathtoll goes to a couple of hundred and tested cases start jumping elsewhere.

Or instead of hiding the panic, PPE/ventilator/ICU shortages and fire-fighting going on right now in London hospitals, they are broadcast for all to see. Nurses in Northwick Park, the hospital that went critical two days ago, are wearing bin bags to protect themselves.

The chart below is enough to send a chill down my spine. This is ft's update of their fatalities chart, but previously no markers were placed where and when nationwide lockdowns were implemented, now they are with a star. See when China applied their draconian measures and how long it took their number to tail off? Then consider our measures - we have a looong way to go.

Think someone once said Boris is incapable of telling people what they don't want to hear - that he will always put a gloss on every turd he owns, and which he can't resist to sell. That is definitely not what we need right now.

 

[RecordAceFromNew]

 

[Shut Up Legs]

Or instead of hiding the panic, PPE/ventilator/ICU shortages and fire-fighting going on right now in London hospitals, they are broadcast for all to see. Nurses in Northwick Park, the hospital that went critical two days ago, are wearing bin bags to protect themselves.

The chart below is enough to send a chill down my spine. This is ft's update of their fatalities chart, but previously no markers were placed where and when nationwide lockdowns were implemented, now they are with a star. See when China applied their draconian measures and how long it took their number to tail off? Then consider our measures - we have a looong way to go.

Think someone once said Boris is incapable of telling people what they don't want to hear - that he will always put a gloss on every turd he owns, and which he can't resist to sell. That is definitely not what we need right now.


View attachment 509632

Japan must be doing something right: it has double Italy's population in a smaller area, and the largest elderly population proportion in the world (italy is only 2nd place in this particular ranking). Despite this, Japan's death rate seems a lot lower than Italy's.

 

[ozboz]

Japan must be doing something right: it has double Italy's population in a smaller area, and the largest elderly population proportion in the world (italy is only 2nd place in this particular ranking). Despite this, Japan's death rate seems a lot lower than Italy's.

Possibly because the Japanese are more inclined to heed the advice that they are given ,
Keep Safe ,

 

[DCLane]

I'm convinced now we're heading for some form of lock-down, particularly in London with other movements curtailed elsewhere.

This may be the last weekend out on the bike for some time. And I don't mean 12 weeks - probably a lot longer.

 

[Johnno260]

They could lockdown areas in a staggered effect but get the MOD to road block areas to stop people moving about.
My wife’s hospital is taking C-19 patients from overloaded London hospitals, and they have run out of PP gear already.

 

[GetAGrip]

Indeed, poor choice of words. One of my daughters students stepped off Clifton Suspension bridge this week. A young man. Heartbreaking.

It is very sad.
Some years ago I lost a sibling to suicide. In the months to follow I did find myself telling people around me, to "not tread on egg shells" <- around me with regards idioms during conversations. These sayings are entrenched in our language and I was so grateful for their support and friendship and in turn I wanted to make people at ease to be in my company.

 

[Pale Rider]

Use of the word 'suicide' has become less acceptable in the last 10 years or so.

A couple of coroners around here now put 'took his own life' in the verdict box of the official form they fill in after an inquest.

Not so long ago they would always have used the s word in those circumstances.

The word has also fallen out of use in hearings in a bid to spare the feelings of the family a little.

 

[Mo1959]

Use of the word 'suicide' has become less acceptable in the last 10 years or so.

A couple of coroners around here now put 'took his own life' in the verdict box of the official form they fill in after an inquest.

Not so long ago they would always have used the s word in those circumstances.

The word has also fallen out of use in hearings in a bid to spare the feelings of the family a little.

Horrible whatever it's called 😢 When I was in the prison service I had the misfortune to be first on the scene of a 19 year old girl hanging. Rest of the staff came round and we did CPR and technically got her out alive, but sadly the brain must have been starved of oxygen for a bit too long and life support was switched off a couple of days later. You then have to relive it all again months down the line at a fatal accident enquiry.

 

[Ming the Merciless]

A climbing friend commited suicide in 2004 in their late 20’s. When they were out in the mountains and climbing they would soar like an eagle. When they were at home they would sink. There will be a few like that now who will struggle with the restrictions on movement. Deprived of their soaring moments.

 

[Pale Rider]

Horrible whatever it's called 😢 When I was in the prison service I had the misfortune to be first on the scene of a 19 year old girl hanging. Rest of the staff came round and we did CPR and technically got her out alive, but sadly the brain must have been starved of oxygen for a bit too long and life support was switched off a couple of days later. You then have to relive it all again months down the line at a fatal accident enquiry.

Coroners are particularly keen to show the inquest process is open and above board if a prison or prisoner is involved.

If a wife finds her husband hanging in the house, the coroner may now accept the wife's statement to the police as her evidence.

This is assumed to be less distressing for her than physically giving the evidence at the hearing.

 

[tom73]

A very lengthy post, but I find it interesting there's not comment about what's happened in prisons in Iran or other countries.

Mass prisoner release you mean? That is an option here in the UK but only for D and C cat. (if we have start moving on to B then it's grim) but not without issues since Graylings "pet project" community supervision is a total mass. Probation is a shell of the former service. Many are already graded as poor or failing add in many are being released with no place to go. we already have some being let out with nothing more than a tent. You face the situation of a mass input of people with complex needs into already over worked services. Add in mass number needed pre release assessments the extra work load would be totally unworkable. Sadly for many Prison is the only place they feel safe. They already commit petty crime in order to recalled. Again adding to extra work into the mix. Many would simply go off the radar completely. You could tag them all but then again that service is a mess and would just not cope and recall rate would be high. Police custody would collapse.

It's not impossible many in prison really could service a sentence in the community. But it would be like moving over to a more effective offender approach over night. We don't have the structure for it to work effectively and safely. Plus they'd need an income once out as finding work for many ex offenders is impossible e.g around 80% of the prison population can't read. Again mass input for the DWP.
Most offenders are not bad people they have just done bad things and can with help get sorted. But without a total new service built from the ground up mass release would basically mean throwing them on mass under the bus.

It is being planned as a possible option of designating other building as prisons and move some into them. Not without problems do you use staff we have in the service taking away from already short front line ? Extra staff from other placers not prison officers? immigration already has taken over a number of hotels to quarantine illegal immigrants. But that's not as complex as holding current offenders in a building that's not fit. We no longer have moth balled army camps so that's out. Most of the already closed prison estate has gone or is not in a condition to be be reopened. One option wolund be moving things round within prisons. Doncaster for example was a cat B but moved to cat C. So still has the extra stuff in place like extra doors within the wings and inner and outer perimeter. But it's a limited option.
The open prisons we have can't take many more as they are being swapped already to free up placers.

A solution will have to be found and quickly the Adult offender service and Youth offender service have great people. But just don't have enough people or resources. Health care on the out side look's likely to collapse on the inside shortage is even worse.
Once that go's under it's game over. A rethink will have to come quickly weather the public are willing to go with it. That's another question.