Corona Virus: How Are We Doing?

[fossyant]

Any particular reason why late August?

Your post raises the interesting spectre of the situation arising as to what happens re employee pay when a company doesn't heed any official Gov' advice re it's time for 'x' segment of the populace to return to work. In effect; who picks up the tab?

Same as DCLane's response (Uni) - we are nearly all working from home. They say the buildings are going to take 6 weeks to ensure they are safe - i.e. stuff like legionaries in the Aircon or water systems. Next is the issue with social distancing. Modern offices, and most desks have around 4 people within 2 metres, so there is that to consider. We are thinking that students will be remotely taught in the first Team, at least.

PS The Uni is picking up the full PAY, there is no furlough, but what happens with other businesses where they can't safely return staff. It's a mess.

 

[SpokeyDokey]

Same as DCLane's response (Uni) - we are nearly all working from home. They say the buildings are going to take 6 weeks to ensure they are safe - i.e. stuff like legionaries in the Aircon or water systems. Next is the issue with social distancing. Modern offices, and most desks have around 4 people within 2 metres, so there is that to consider. We are thinking that students will be remotely taught in the first Team, at least.

PS The Uni is picking up the full PAY, there is no furlough, but what happens with other businesses where they can't safely return staff. It's a mess.

Glad the Uni is picking up 100% for you.

Highlighted bit: I guess the fine detail will emerge in due course - yesterday's announcement was only a broad brush stroke paving the way to a controlled return to normality; or at least the best that can be achieved effective pre-vaccine etc.

 

[marinyork]

Any particular reason why late August?

Your post raises the interesting spectre of the situation arising as to what happens re employee pay when a company doesn't heed any official Gov' advice re it's time for 'x' segment of the populace to return to work. In effect; who picks up the tab?

It may be mixed away from academia and higher management.

I know someone who works for a university on a casual contract, their work is not essential in the slightest (I've given them health and safety and whistleblowing advice) and been forced to work through most of this redeployed and details have become more apparent the last couple of weeks. Changes have been made to stagger rotas so the office is a third full, but little else. In their exact personal circumstances and work conditions (in their late 20s, live on their own) I would be just about happy to go to work as a concept, provided they'd been a bit more generous with the staff and said 4 x longer shifts instead of 5 shorter shifts (they've overhauled the rota anyway) which has been done in other sectors that aren't essential with the 'dogsbody' jobs and the issue of travel was addressed. It's the travel that's the biggest risk. The employers are just doing it because they are expendable and can get away with it. If any other groups are similarly brought back it'll change the risk upwards by quite a lot.

In the next couple of months I think this sort of issue will crop up all over the place, including in unis where a lot of staff are casual or on not so good contracts.

 

[SpokeyDokey]

It may be mixed away from academia and higher management.

I know someone who works for a university on a casual contract, their work is not essential in the slightest (I've given them health and safety and whistleblowing advice) and been forced to work through most of this redeployed and details have become more apparent the last couple of weeks. Changes have been made to stagger rotas so the office is a third full, but little else. In their exact personal circumstances and work conditions (in their late 20s, live on their own) I would be just about happy to go to work as a concept, provided they'd been a bit more generous with the staff and said 4 x longer shifts instead of 5 shorter shifts (they've overhauled the rota anyway) which has been done in other sectors that aren't essential with the 'dogsbody' jobs and the issue of travel was addressed. It's the travel that's the biggest risk. The employers are just doing it because they are expendable and can get away with it. If any other groups are similarly brought back it'll change the risk upwards by quite a lot.

In the next couple of months I think this sort of issue will crop up all over the place, including in unis where a lot of staff are casual or on not so good contracts.

Any solutions will be patchy as people slowly return to work and will depend on the quality of the employer. I'm wondering if legislation will be put in place vis-a-vis minimum standards etc.

I know of three people who have their own business with furloughed staff who have reorganised the workspace, have PPE in place (albeit it not much at present) and they have done it in conjunction with their staff (or representatives thereof).

Maybe overwhelming public pressure will ensure that employers act responsibly.

The public transport issue is a conundrum for sure.

 

[fossyant]

Many of our staff use public transport, so they won't be able to get in (and travel some distance) - there is very little parking available being city centre based, and I only have parking due to my back injury. We've actively encouraged public transport, cycling and walking, so it's going to be near on impossible, or even safe, for those staff to use public transport come end of summer. Sitting on a crowded train for over an hour in the current situation.

 

[marinyork]

Any solutions will be patchy as people slowly return to work and will depend on the quality of the employer. I'm wondering if legislation will be put in place vis-a-vis minimum standards etc.

I know of three people who have their own business with furloughed staff who have reorganised the workspace, have PPE in place (albeit it not much at present) and they have done it in conjunction with their staff (or representatives thereof).

Maybe overwhelming public pressure will ensure that employers act responsibly.

The public transport issue is a conundrum for sure.

I don't think legislation will be put in place, unless it's the 1m stuff speculated a week or so ago and perhaps not really discussed elsewhere 'screens' which has caught on big time. H&S is done by consent and disinterest but normally doesn't function very well. H&S in most companies is dealt with by Homer Simpson. Risk assessments are normally hidden. When they are done it's usually 'because we say so' and there's no references to any robust outside studies. These things are very big cultural changes to suddenly enact. Most workplaces are heavily non-unionised and do not have anyone interested in H&S certainly initially they'll be a lot of variations between those that do and don't.

Legislation absolutely needs putting in place with a sunset clause. There needs to be primary legislation to stop people discriminating on virus status and antibody status as per speculations of SPI-B.

I know of other people who have their own businesses and making plans to go back (not yet - late summer). Their plans as fleshed out with various random conversations with people from society and are a lot more robust, particularly given the resources of those organisations.

I've got some contingency plans for volunteering (which bizarrely enough was regarded as essential which I later found out in detailed government advice). Unfortunately no access whatsoever to any PPE of any sort so that one's difficult.

 

[SpokeyDokey]

I don't think legislation will be put in place, unless it's the 1m stuff speculated a week or so ago and perhaps not really discussed elsewhere 'screens' which has caught on big time. H&S is done by consent and disinterest but normally doesn't function very well. H&S in most companies is dealt with by Homer Simpson. Risk assessments are normally hidden. When they are done it's usually 'because we say so' and there's no references to any robust outside studies. These things are very big cultural changes to suddenly enact. Most workplaces are heavily non-unionised and do not have anyone interested in H&S certainly initially they'll be a lot of variations between those that do and don't.

Legislation absolutely needs putting in place with a sunset clause. There needs to be primary legislation to stop people discriminating on virus status and antibody status as per speculations of SPI-B.

I know of other people who have their own businesses and making plans to go back (not yet - late summer). Their plans as fleshed out with various random conversations with people from society and are a lot more robust, particularly given the resources of those organisations.

I've got some contingency plans for volunteering (which bizarrely enough was regarded as essential which I later found out in detailed government advice). Unfortunately no access whatsoever to any PPE of any sort so that one's difficult.

That's good to hear.

I'm sure a lot of public bodies and businesses will be getting into gear as there will be huge pressure on them to get things right from their employees and the general public.

No doubt some will slip through the net and whilst it's very difficult to legislate against all eventualities I hope some punitive measures will be put in place for errant Directors and other business owners.

 

[screenman]

My Sage cover has gone up today from £18 a month to £40, is that going to be the way ahead.

 

[SpokeyDokey]

My Sage cover has gone up today from £18 a month to £40, is that going to be the way ahead.

Are you able to ask them why it has gone up so much?

 

[marinyork]

That's good to hear.

I'm sure a lot of public bodies and businesses will be getting into gear as there will be huge pressure on them to get things right from their employees and the general public.

No doubt some will slip through the net and whilst it's very difficult to legislate against all eventualities I hope some punitive measures will be put in place for errant Directors and other business owners.

I forgot to say that one of the concerns I have generally is the focus on health and safety may be on rooms people work in. As a lot of people work in offices on cyclechat this one probably doesn't make much sense, but there tends to be a lot of stuff in H&S away at the fringes on this issue. The risk will normally be largest in whatever room is worked in normally, but doesn't mean elsewhere there isn't a sizeable risk. Transport as fossyant says needs including properly. PPE I would worry about a one size fits all for some companies where clearly that isn't appropriate and workers aren't daft even if they are worried. It's going to be a complex issue over about a year or so as for example some of the evidence we have on BAME risk, on obesity, on men, on shielders, on over 70s and going the over way on mild asthma may become more solid government guidance or alternatively be adopted by employers.

A lot of small employers are resourceful, I think that can be made to work. The issue is scalability for most. One of the people I know implementing stuff when they go back has a very high margin business and 1-1 so that's totally different from most of the stuff you see on the tv where, yeah, how on earth does that work? A lot of places seem to be quoting a third or quarter of capacity, so what happens there with prices and government support. I doubt someone can charge 4x the price for a meal at a restaurant, but it might be possible to have a substantial mark up from what it is now.

I think bodies will get PPE in, I think you're right there, it's some of these centralised systems that have gone wrong.

 

[screenman]

Are you able to ask them why it has gone up so much?

Yes, they have changed it slightly.

 

[SpokeyDokey]

Yes, they have changed it slightly.

But did they give a reason as to why it has doubled (more than!).

 

[screenman]

But did they give a reason as to why it has doubled (more than!).

That was the reason.

 

[vickster]

Many of our staff use public transport, so they won't be able to get in (and travel some distance) - there is very little parking available being city centre based, and I only have parking due to my back injury. We've actively encouraged public transport, cycling and walking, so it's going to be near on impossible, or even safe, for those staff to use public transport come end of summer. Sitting on a crowded train for over an hour in the current situation.

Can they not continue to wah, that’s the plan for my London based employer for the time being
Or have these staff been furloughed?
We really don’t know what end of summer (3 months from now) will look like

 

[lazybloke]

Be interesting to see how rush hour traffic levels vary in the coming weeks, especially if/when some primary school classes resume in June.
But what happens in September? School lessons (for all) can't go back to normal if we're still social-distancing. Commuting will be a nightmare if you're stuck on trains & buses, because you'll either have to queue for hours for one with a space, or the recommendations will be flouted and you'll be crushed in with everyone else. The latter seems more likely to me; I don't see how this country can avoid further peaks.

And of course, the intention was only ever to flatten the curve not to avoid it.
So in that case, how many of the worst case scenario half-a-million deaths will happen anyway?