Contador fails drug test

[mike-L]

Because 'they' can't prove anything conclusively, it seems.

The glass half full view would be that there's a 'chance' that the stuff came from meat (there was some earlier evidence of this in another case), so to ban him completely might be overkill. This, because otherwise why would earlier and later tests (still during the race) have been negative? He's no cheat and the sport is mostly clean.

The cynic in me says though that doping is still endemic in top level cycling and he got unlucky despite very sophisticated medical techniques used to hide the stuff. Why for instance has mention of the PLASICISER also found, not been examined? - it comes from blood from transfusion bags. He's a cheat, but then so are a lot of them in that machine.

Ireally can't say which of the above is closer to the truth. Will we ever know? Like the Magic Circle or the Masons, once you are on the inside...

As I am gutted he has been found guilty i still dont understand why CHEATS dont just get banned for life!!! would cut all this nonsense out for good!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[yello]

I think it is a difficult case in fairness. It's not a simple slam dunk.

The amount of clenbutorol was so minutely small that pretty much everyone accepted it could be of no use in itself. The 'tainted meat' excuse is, well, an excuse and doesn't stand too much scrutiny... but I guess it's not outside the realms of possibility. So, on the face of it, it seemingly does point to transfusion. But there's no proof of that either. Even the plasticiser test, should it have been acceptable, does prove transfusion... just adds to the probability.

Yes, of course, there should be NO clenbutorol in his system at all, full stop. That's the letter of the law. Just like you shouldn't do 30.0000001mph in a 30. Personally, I think the levels detected allow for some leniency, allow him some space (wiggle room if you want) to offer an explanation (as it clearly wasn't taken at that time for performance enhancement).

Much as we all may believe that he probably transfused, I don't feel you can ban him on the basis that the clenbuturol was probably accidental but indicates something else. That's damned near a 'no smoke without fire' argument.

Personally, I reckon Contador should recognise the environment he's in, shut up and take the 1 year ban and think himself damned lucky.

 

[andy_wrx]

As I am gutted he has been found guilty i still dont understand why CHEATS dont just get banned for life!!! would cut all this nonsense out for good!!!!!!!!!!!!!

__________________
What would Lance do?.........

 

[yello]

That would be seen as tacit admission though.

By which party?

I don't see it as Contador admitting anything. I'd say that he's been given the benefit of the (albeit slim) doubt on his 'tainted meat' story. Officially anyway. He'd spin it as 'story accepted', they'd spin it as 'case not proven'.

 

[fozzy]

[first post, hard topic to start with] Have to say i agree with mike l, there just seems to be too much doubt/uncertainty and if i may add a certain amount of political toe dipping from the UCI and others. A few things just seem wrong to me from a 'fairness' [sorry i hate inverted commas too] point of view. Why the wait from the UCI before announcing the results last year? was it all going to swept under the carpet, or did they know/strongly suspect it was just a mistake? or, was thier collective arm bent into exposing the whole thing by the leak to the German?? media who i think got hold of the infomation [i may be wrong there but seem to remember that being the case].

Does the contaminated meat thing hold up? there has been cases for and against that particular reason/excuse, in many differant sports. So; does it happen or are the methods always 100% right and all sportsmen/women always lying? i don't personally deal in absolutes but, many people seem to be of a differant opinion. or, is he cheating and clutching at straws, any excuse will do!

As for a lifetime ban, surely that is too steep a pentalty in a case that obviously contains some level of doubt. Also, on a proffesional level, he has just done something wrong at work and in his case - and others - there are people, family, employers, emplyees, team mates, business and many other people of differant logistical positions that rely on him and his representation in the team to earn a crust. also, in any job, to break the laws of that trade under an employer, and then to subsequently be banned for life of ever practising that trade again; for anyone, anywhere, at anytime, is far too harsh: for any person, in any trade [the rules must apply to all, or they are simply guidelines to be bent for the few and used to lash the rest].

Do i think he cheated? on the evidence [?????????] put forward for the public i would have to say there is enough doubt [reasonable doubt anyone?] to say that he may of just made a mistake [i'm sure i read somewhere that he is human like the rest of us], but his reputation has already been dragged through the mud and will never recover fully. the whole thing seems like a farce to me, and from begining to - eventual - end no one has been covered in glory, or anything remotely like it.

 

[frank9755]

Does the contaminated meat thing hold up?

I recall reading somewhere that in all the many thousands (or tens, hundreds of thousands) of the tests that have been carried out in meat in Europe that clenbuterol had never been detected in any. That implies he was either very unlucky, happening to eat the only contaminated steak detected in the whole continent, or he wasn't.


Has anyone explained how he knew it came from the Spanish beef?

 

[johnr]

Has anyone explained how he knew it came from the Spanish beef?

An acquaintance came over from Spain to meet up after one of the mountain stages and brought it with him, apparently . I'm vegetarian myself, but I understand it's very hard to buy meat in France.

I keep thinking back to that final timetrial. Schleck, the rubbish trialler, has the ride of his life and Contador (can we call him Albeutenol, officially, yet?), the acknowledged expert, struggled all the way. There was something wrong. I assumed at the time that Albeutenol's team had got the recovery/'nutrition' wrong in some way.

I suppose now they're on the same team, under the watchful eye of that paragon of the sport, Riis, they'll at least be using the same pharmacist in future.

On a separate point. Someone in this thread mentioned the earning potential of golfers. In the warm up to one of the tennis matches that's on today, they listed player's earnings in one of the stats boxes. A woman I've only vaguely heard of earned $5 million last year .

I know the top stars pull down biggish bucks through advertsing etc. But don't the second tier have agents and/or representatives? And is there no one pointing out to them how much better off they would be if the sport was clean?

And now Albeutenol is going to fight to 'clear his name'. It's back to the margins for all of us...

 

[johnr]

PS...

Good first post Fozzy and welcome to the forum

 

[gb155]

An acquaintance came over from Spain to meet up after one of the mountain stages and brought it with him, apparently . I'm vegetarian myself, but I understand it's very hard to buy meat in France.

I keep thinking back to that final timetrial. Schleck, the rubbish trialler, has the ride of his life and Contador (can we call him Albeutenol, officially, yet?), the acknowledged expert, struggled all the way. There was something wrong. I assumed at the time that Albeutenol's team had got the recovery/'nutrition' wrong in some way.

I suppose now they're on the same team, under the watchful eye of that paragon of the sport, Riis, they'll at least be using the same pharmacist in future.

On a separate point. Someone in this thread mentioned the earning potential of golfers. In the warm up to one of the tennis matches that's on today, they listed player's earnings in one of the stats boxes. A woman I've only vaguely heard of earned $5 million last year .

I know the top stars pull down biggish bucks through advertsing etc. But don't the second tier have agents and/or representatives? And is there no one pointing out to them how much better off they would be if the sport was clean?

And now Albeutenol is going to fight to 'clear his name'. It's back to the margins for all of us...

Bertie Joined Team Leopard ????

 

[frank9755]

An acquaintance came over from Spain to meet up after one of the mountain stages and brought it with him, apparently .

No, what I meant was not how did he get the beef but why did he believe it had caused it as opposed to any other potential cause? Presumably he ate other things during the period so how was his sixth sense able to identify the beef as the cause.

What I'm getting at is:

[/puts on gullible hat] he couldn't possibly have detected that the steak he ate had the substance in it, so why did he suggest it was the steak? [/takes off gullible hat] unless he off course knew it wasn't the steak but was not completely surprised by the test result.

It just seemed to be a form of protesting too much, but I'd not seen anyone pick up on it, and having not followed the story as closely as some, I wondered if I had missed it being discussed...?

 

[rich p]

By saying that his mate had brought the meat over from Spain, he gave himself a reason why he could be clenbuterol positive while his teammates wouldn't be. That defence wouldn't have been possible if they'd all eaten the same food in the hotel as per normal.

A risible defence, in my opinion, but some people have swallowed it like a piece of tainted steak!

The cynical amongst us wonder what he'd have come up with had the stage been in the Alps and not just over the Spanish border.

 

[Crackle]

An asthmatic team mechanic accidentally let his inhalor off in his pocket as Contador bent down to examine his chain. He didn't realize he'd inhaled it, just thought the mechanic had farted.

 

[fozzy]

thanks johnr. good point frank9755. i can't remember that particular view point being brought up in any media/forum [i mat be wrong on that however]. agree, he maybe he couldn't tell the differance between the two bits of meat [if they contained drugs or not], i can only assume he blamed that particular bit of cow because he was aware???? it hadn't been through the same testing procedure, what that is i don't know. which of course would lead to the question of why he ate it [if indeed it was from food in the first place]. or, did he trust the source and saw no reason to doubt it. i would also add that the position of the athlete being solely responsible for everything that enters thier body [food, drink, suppliments etc etc] seems slightly draconian. can we really expect them to source the meat, follow its husbandry, slaughter, transport and preparation? without even mentioning the terms and conditions of each countries' laws governing import/export of food stuffs, and the frequency of testing within those laws, or peoples attitude towards enforcing those laws. i know people are employed to do this for tham but, surely that in itself would imply a certain amount of grey area as opposed to black and white, it's all your [alberto] fault.

 

[yello]

He blamed the beef (as opposed to the carrots) because there is documented evidence both of clenbutorol being in beef and of it transferring to humans who eat the contaminated beef. Some farmers (and Spanish no exception) did once give their cattle the stuff but the practice supposedly ceased some years ago. Clearly, that doesn't mean there aren't those still doing it.

It is something I've raised before though; Contador is not a biochemist. IF (note IF) he is innocent of deliberate doping then how on earth is he supposed to explain the presence of clenbutorol? All he can do is offer the most plausible theory... as laughable as that theory might be to some.

 

[rich p]

fozzy, for what it's worth, the cynics amongst us think the meat is a red herring

I don't know if it's worth it but this is the theory widely held about what happened.

Bertie, according to sources close to the Astana team, was doping up on clenbuterol and when all traces had gone by all normal testing methods, he had some extracted to use at a later date - blood doping.

During the tour, Bertie has a blood transfusion of his own slightly tainted blood, which explains the presence of plasticizers from the blood bag. Unfortunately this was not an accredited test at that time but is now. (I'm not sure why they don't retest but there may be a scientific reason.)

This lab tested to a higher degree than hitherto which explains why the amount was tiny and why Astana assumed it was clean.

Result is that Bertie gets nicked for a tiny amount which is assumed to be negligible and allows him the Spanish meat defence.