Compulsory helmet wearing for children under 16 mooted.

[very-near]

The argument is broader. As Cunobelin has so often shown,why is cycling to be a special case? And the statement about teaching children they can headbutt things without risk---again, cycling is different?
Does not compute.

You simplify the arefument far too much I think Tony.

Kids fall over all the time when learning to walk/run. They are well versed in the connection between a fall and the pain and injury which goes with it long before they attempt to get onto two wheels.

I think there is a risk of being a little bit indiganant on behalf of others on this thread, and worse than that, face the accusation that individuals making a choice for themselves are then attempting to do so for others where the ability and safety may not be an equal measure.

It's alright spouting the facts and figures and statistics of how cycling is the safest thing bar living like a hermit in a cave, but the same can be said for flying - safe until it goes wrong.

The law for horseriding is that anyone under the age of 14 must wear a riding hat when on the road. I think this is entirely a senbsible guideline given that 90% of horseriding on the road is done at walking pace.

Accidents are just that - if we know they are going to happen, we take steps to avoid them, likewise, if we know that there is a likelihood our heads are going to connect with an object, we take steps to lesten the impact.

If you don't want to use common sense for your own safety, it doesn't mean you should have the right to deny that right to others.

 

[dellzeqq]

I do hope all you parents of young children have bought one of these. Remember.....

“As an expert and a parent I feel it is just common sense — anything that can protect our children from this risk should be compulsory.”

Bollo, it took me a little while to work out that this website was for real. I despair.

Standing on Whitstable railway station this summer I watched thirty or so pre-school children running round the playground of their nursery school. They were having a grand time, a far better time than the hapless adults, who were chasing them and replacing their caps every time one of the little horrors brushed it off, or discarded it because their heads were hot. I can only presume that someone had decided that if they were going to get skin cancer it wouldn't be in the playground.........

 

[MartinC]

You still didn't answer my question of whether you would put your own children in a cycling hat Martin ?

In your own time of course

I guess you must be referring to some long forgotten thread. No, I wouldn't put my own children in a cycling hat. Given that you know nothing about my children (e.g. age, whether they cycle, etc.) I can't see how this answer has any relevance to anything but if you feel it helps you then you're welcome.

 

[Bollo]

Bollo, it took me a little while to work out that this website was for real. I despair.
........

F***ing unbelievable is it not? But it serves as a useful baseline in the whole helmet argument. For me the key question for the whole helmet debate is....

If a helmet can reduce risk of injury, even by the smallest statistically significant amount, then should it mandated? If you take the absolutist view that the answer is yes, then we should all probably don a helmet as soon as we get up in the morning.

If you believe that any increase in risk can be traded against other benefits (comfort, practicality, cost, the dread 'convenience', health etc etc) then you must decide where this subjective boundary lies. This is how nearly all of us live our lives on a daily basis, and not just when cycling. It's really the only way anyone can live their lives.

I'd be interested to know (sends bat-signal to Origamist) whether there has been any research that has compared peoples' perceptions of risk of cycling (with and without a helmet) with other activities that have the same objective risk of injury?

FTR - if 7yr old Bolletta is pootling about in our cul-de-sac, I've no problems with her not wearing a helmet. For on road stuff, she wears the hat but I'm under no illusions that this is for minor injuries only and, when she's more competent and confident and less likely just to fall off, I'll leave it up to her. I also let her play outside unsupervised and walk the short distance to school by herself. She's a pretty chilled out kid and I trust her not to do something daft. If she were different, then my attitude might be different as well. But I'm her dad, and its up to me to judge the risks.

 

[MacB]

well my 3 boys headed off to school this morning on their bikes. They all own cycling helmets but these gather dust in the garage. I'm comfortable with their decision

 

[very-near]

I guess you must be referring to some long forgotten thread. No, I wouldn't put my own children in a cycling hat. Given that you know nothing about my children (e.g. age, whether they cycle, etc.) I can't see how this answer has any relevance to anything but if you feel it helps you then you're welcome.

If you are attempting to force your 'choice' argument upon other parents, then it is not unreasonable to ask whether you yourself (and your chldren's other parent('s)) actually live by these decisions you make on their personal safety.

 

[very-near]

well my 3 boys headed off to school this morning on their bikes. They all own cycling helmets but these gather dust in the garage. I'm comfortable with their decision

About 3 months ago, myself and my missus were walking the dog along a cyclepath when a kid (about 13) came past on a MTB. He rode about 100ft ahead of us, and then attempted to ride onto a grassed area next to the path. He got is wrong and went over the bars. He started screaming like there was no tomorrow, and so we went running up to help him. (He was complaining about his hip/back so I called for an ambilance and told him to stay still till they go there ) turns out he was just bruised there.

Whilst we were waiting, he took his hat off and handed it to me. It was split in half inside from where he went head first into the tarmac and he had a bit of a moan his dad would kill him for breaking it!

He turned outto be OK, and by chance I know his father as an old neighbour of mine from years ago.

Damned lids don't take much punishment before they need replacing do they !!

 

[CotterPin]

Damned lids don't take much punishment before they need replacing do they !!

They are only designed to take the one hit. That's how they work. As soon as a cycling helmet hits a hard surface (with or without a head in it), it should be replaced. It's structural integrity is damaged and it will offer limited or no protection in future.

 

[Bollo]

If you are attempting to force your 'choice' argument upon other parents, then it is not unreasonable to ask whether you yourself (and your chldren's other parent('s)) actually live by these decisions you make on their personal safety.

How do you 'force choice'?

 

[MacB]

seriously Linf, how many people do you know that have suffered serious head injuries through cycling? I don't personally know anyone, I split my head open several times as a child and none of these involved a bike. I do know several people that have suffered head injuries through other mediums, number one being drivers/passengers of cars.


All you're doing is making the what if arguement. I could say to you that if you'd never been on a motorbike you couldn't have had your crash, didn't your parents tell you motorbikes were dangerous?

 

[very-near]

seriously Linf, how many people do you know that have suffered serious head injuries through cycling? I don't personally know anyone, I split my head open several times as a child and none of these involved a bike. I do know several people that have suffered head injuries through other mediums, number one being drivers/passengers of cars.


All you're doing is making the what if arguement. I could say to you that if you'd never been on a motorbike you couldn't have had your crash, didn't your parents tell you motorbikes were dangerous?[/quote]

All the time. The give me a huge lecture every time I turn up there on one.

I visited a guy off C+ a few years ago in the Neural unit at Frenchay in Brizzle.

He was living in Cheltenham, and IIRC went under the name of DavidC or similar. He came off on a trail near Dursley when a Deer crossed his path.

I don't think he was wearing a lid, but thought hard about it afterwards.

He lost a couple of weeks of his life in there. It was fairly serious, and TBH, if you saw the other guys around him all suffering from serious head injuries from one thing or another you'd not want to join them - it was one of the most depressing wards I've ever been on (and my kid spent 3 weeks on the burns ward when she was 2 1/2)

 

[ChrisKH]

seriously Linf, how many people do you know that have suffered serious head injuries through cycling? I don't personally know anyone, I split my head open several times as a child and none of these involved a bike. I do know several people that have suffered head injuries through other mediums, number one being drivers/passengers of cars.


All you're doing is making the what if arguement. I could say to you that if you'd never been on a motorbike you couldn't have had your crash, didn't your parents tell you motorbikes were dangerous?[/quote]

All the time. The give me a huge lecture every time I turn up there on one.

I visited a guy off C+ a few years ago in the Neural unit at Frenchay in Brizzle.

He was living in Cheltenham, and IIRC went under the name of DavidC or similar. He came off on a trail near Dursley when a Deer crossed his path.

I don't think he was wearing a lid, but thought hard about it afterwards.

He lost a couple of weeks of his life in there. It was fairly serious, and TBH, if you saw the other guys around him all suffering from serious head injuries from one thing or another you'd not want to join them - it was one of the most depressing wards I've ever been on (and my kid spent 3 weeks on the burns ward when she was 2 1/2)

Never been on a cancer ward then? Not meaning to patronise but, they can be seriously depressing (and uplifting).

 

[MacB]

well all 3 have arrived home safe and sound, though I did feel a bit of a twinge of guilt. Yep they're all burdened down with a heavy bike lock, I really wish they could cycle without one of these as well.

 

[MartinC]

If you are attempting to force your 'choice' argument upon other parents, then it is not unreasonable to ask whether you yourself (and your chldren's other parent('s)) actually live by these decisions you make on their personal safety.

Linf, you've got me here. I can't even parse this into semantically correct English.

I like the bits of whimsy though - "forcing choice" and my children having an indeterminate number of parents.

 

[very-near]

Linf, you've got me here. I can't even parse this into semantically correct English.

I like the bits of whimsy though - "forcing choice" and my children having an indeterminate number of parents.

So instead of actually answering the question, you try and divert with a 'I don't understand' answer. It seems a fairly common trick when you really don't want to face it - you did it last time (stir things up and run away) which makes your arguments come across as a load of bollocks.

Now the previous statement makes perfect sense to me, and BTW you did understand the bit about 'forcing choice' on the children.

We treat them as minors and make choices in their best interests because they are not mature enough to do it themselves

They are children and cannot rationalise in the way you or I can.

What you are actually doing is taking away their parents ability to enforce the application of a perfectly sensible piece of safety equipment.

If you don't understand this bit, then I'd say you are talking bollocks about being a parent of a teenager as you just don't have the experience to understand where I'm coming from or how they behave (try Kevin and Perry as an insight)

Kids don't wear cycling hats because it isn't cool to be seen with one on by their dopey sniggering 'mates'.
Kids will walk into town on a saturday afternoon in a T-shirt when it is 5c degrees because a jacket will 'spoil the look' and then spend the next few hours running from shop to shop to stay warm.

That is the only logic they can apply to whether there is a benefit to be had or not.

If kids have a law they are obliged to obey, then hopefully it will get them past this age of stupid and reach a point where they make the choice to wear a lid with maturity over such a potentially life changing decision.

My two kids are 19 and 16 (the eldest lives with her B/F). I've been through their 'age of stupidity' twice now as a parent and I have absolutely despaired of their actions from time to time in their early teen years. The only thing I can enforce is if they wish to ride on the back of my m/cycle, they wear a decent crash helmet, a fully armoured leather suit, leather gloves and boots - and they don't argue the toss over it.

Now back to you - How old are your kids, and have your own experiences as a parent such that you feel qualified to lay down the law to other parents Martin ?