Chiropractors

[Hudson1984]

my experience:
had bad knees for years - went to chiropractor, paid about £1,000 over the course of several months, was told "making great progress, can really see the difference etc" - knees still hurt.
Went to an osteopath - paid SUBSTANTIALLY less, and along with some other issues, I came out feeling alot straighter, now my back issues were fine after osteopath - kness still hurt!

later down the line, my hip started hurting.
Osteopath - might be a tear, would explain the knee pain - come back every couple of weeks and we'll work on it.
Three trips later - hips and knees still hurt.

1 trip to physio:
Yes this may be a tear, may also be something more at play here. He looked further into issues, referred me for an MRI and Xray, seems I have a larger issue with Hip, it needs an operation, it's been this way for years and is suspected to be causing the knee pain by making me walk wonky. He suggested I can come back for more sessions to assist with keeping me comfortable but in reality it'll be best to keep active in ways that don't aggravate it and wait for the op then we'll get to work on rebuilding after that....1 trip... solved.

I like my osteopath, but I agree the physio held the actual answers.

 

[icowden]

After 10 years it didn't get better, and after 3 months of homeopathic treatment it did get better. That is too much of a concidence if you ask me. And this wasn't "a cold". It was a debiliating condition where my Dad could hardly eat anything without it feeling like molten lava. Why does it upset you so much that some people can find alternative tretments that are successful, rather than it costing the NHS to treat my dad with unsuccessful treatments?

It got better because he believed that the homepathic treatment would make it better. That's what the placebo effect is. It can achieve some incredible results. It doesn't mean that it works. As Tim Minchin put it:-

Science adjusts its views based on what's observed;
Faith is the denial of observation so that belief can be preserved
If you show me that, say, homeopathy works
Then I will change my mind
I will spin on a f***** dime
I'll be as embarrassed as hell
Yet I will run through the streets yelling
'It's a miracle! Take physics and bin it!
Water has memory!
And whilst its memory of a long lost drop of onion juice seems infinite
It somehow forgets all the poo it's had in it!'

and my other favourite line:

By definition," I begin
"Alternative Medicine," I continue
"Has either not been proved to work
Or been proved not to work
Do you know what they call alternative medicine
That's been proved to work?
Medicine."

As for the difference between an osteopath and a chiropractor:-

Osteopathic medicine was founded by Andrew Taylor Still, a 19th-century American physician, Civil War surgeon, and Kansas state and territorial legislator.[16][17][18][19] He lived near Baldwin City, Kansas at the time of the American Civil War and it was there that he founded the practice of osteopathy.[20] Still claimed that human illness was rooted in problems with the musculoskeletal system, and that osteopathic manipulations could solve these problems by harnessing the body's own self-repairing potential

Osteopathy is a registered and regulated profession in the UK.

Chiropractic was founded in 1895 by Daniel David (D.D.) Palmer in Davenport, Iowa. Palmer, a magnetic healer, hypothesized that manual manipulation of the spine could cure disease.[217] The first chiropractic patient of D.D. Palmer was Harvey Lillard, a worker in the building where Palmer's office was located.[38] He claimed that he had severely reduced hearing for 17 years, which started soon following a "pop" in his spine.[38] A few days following his adjustment, Lillard claimed his hearing was almost completely restored.[38] Chiropractic competed with its predecessor osteopathy, another medical system based on magnetic healing and bonesetting; both systems were founded by charismatic midwesterners in opposition to the conventional medicine of the day, and both postulated that manipulation improved health.[217] Although initially keeping chiropractic a family secret, in 1898 Palmer began teaching it to a few students at his new Palmer School of Chiropractic.[21] One student, his son Bartlett Joshua (B.J.) Palmer, became committed to promoting chiropractic, took over the Palmer School in 1906, and rapidly expanded its enrollment.[21]

Chiropractic is a registered and regulated profession in the UK.

Physical Therapy or Physiotherapy dates back to about 460BC and is a regulated science based profession meaning that practice is based on peer reviewed outcomes rather than belief.

As a science-based practice, physiotherapy uses facts, theories and hypotheses and tests them against available data. Various recognised and validated tests are used to assess a patient’s muscle strength and range-of-motion. The profession itself has its roots in medical science. Physicians like Hippocrates and Galenus are believed to have been the first practitioners of physiotherapy. These scholars employed techniques such as massage, hydrotherapy and manual therapy. The mere idea of physicians practicing physiotherapy is enough to brand it a science. However, there is further proof.

Physiotherapy aims at promoting, restoring and maintaining physical, psychological and emotional well being. Physiotherapy treatments are formulated after extensive research and observations before being implemented, and the profession is subjected to strict regulation by various governing bodies. Physiotherapists have come to rely more and more on evidence-based practice to ensure that outcomes are spread throughout the profession and are not just the domain of a select few. Physiotherapists undergo years of rigorous training before they can become licensed to practice, with a large proportion going on to further post graduate study.

To become a chiropractor you need to attend a 90 minute interview, sound convincing about your practice and pay the fee.

To become an Osteopath you need to attend a degree or post-grad level training course taking 4 to 5 years.SO at least with an Osteopath you can expect:-
knowledge of anatomy, physiology, pathology, pharmacology, nutrition and biomechanics, plus at least 1,000 hours of clinical training. You must also have continuous professional development once qualified in order to be able to practice.

To become a Physiotherapist you need to do a 3 year degree or 2 year masters if you have an appropriate degree already, You must also have continuous professional development once qualified in order to be able to practice.

So the message would seem to be that Physio is best, then Osteo, then Chiro.

 

[Yellow Fang]

So the message would seem to be that Physio is best, then Osteo, then Chiro.

Except when the physio and the osteo aren't open for business and the chiropractor is.

I did see a chiropractor about ten years ago about a knee problem. She was very nice. Sometimes she would actually climb on me to get some force on my problem areas. It was almost like real sex. Sadly, it did not do my knee much good and I ended up seeing a physio. My current chiropractor is different. He prefers to torture me. Nevertheless, my shoulder is almost better now, and it's been stiff for months.

I've seen physios before, usually for my runners knee. They always fixed it, but not for good. It always came back. Physiotherapists usually have more equipment like infra-red lamps and ultrasonic gizmos, but sometimes I suspect they just put you under those things so they can see another patient in the meantime.

I've seen podiatrists to try to fix my knee for good. The first one said I had flat feet, and gave me some cheap orthotics. They cleared up my runners knee in no time but made me prone to turning my ankle, as it was like running in high heels. Given that experience, I did not fancy getting the £500 pair of orthotics or even the £125 pair. A couple of years ago I saw another podiatrist, who told me one of my legs was shorter than the other. I paid about £150 for a pair of custom made orthotics. I can't say it's really made a lot of difference, but I've cut down my running a lot because my knee is f*****.

 

[vickster]

Have you had your knee scanned?

 

[Yellow Fang]

Have you had your knee scanned?

No, should I?

 

[YellowV2]

Have you actually been to your GP?
It's not the best idea to ask unqualified people on an Internet forum for advice, as I stated in my original post my Chiropractor actually advised me to see my GP when they weren't happy and wanted me to have an MRI scan and gave me a letter explaining. Your GP will be able to arrange a scan if necessary.
Regarding footbeds, I know of at least two cyclists who had a bike fit from a reputable bike fitter who prescribed footbeds, to correct different leg length. After a while still not happy they saw another bike fitter who is also a qualified Physio and correctional exercise specialist, both legs the same length but both cyclists had a Pelvic tilt! Which was the problem and now ride pain free with no inserts/shims.

 

[vickster]

No, should I?

Well it could show what the issue is with your knee

 

[Electric_Andy]

It's frankly just bollocks from end to end and please don't delude yourself that it's not.

That's your opinion, I have mine.

 

[si_c]

That's your opinion, I have mine.

It's not opinion. Opinion is "Red bikes look nicer", for facts we look for evidence, and there is none for homeopathy or other pseudoscientific medical theories.

 

[YellowV2]

Those of us who use Homeopathy and any other alternative medicine aren't really interested, if it works for us then that is enough evidence.
You're opinion (and it is that) may be based on scientific evidence if you want to trust it. Who funds all the scientific research? Oh of course it's the large pharmaceutical companies. How do you know Homeopathy doesn't work, have you tried it, no of course not. You may find it just might work and that probably frightens you!

 

[newfhouse]

How do you know Homeopathy doesn't work

How does it work?

 

[si_c]

Those of us who use Homeopathy and any other alternative medicine aren't really interested, if it works for us then that is enough evidence.
You're opinion (and it is that) may be based on scientific evidence if you want to trust it. Who funds all the scientific research? Oh of course it's the large pharmaceutical companies. How do you know Homeopathy doesn't work, have you tried it, no of course not. You may find it just might work and that probably frightens you!

FFS. You really are determined to push this aren't you.

Homeopathy "works" on the basis of like cures like, i.e. if you have diarrhea then you consume something that gives you diarrhea except in extreme dilute format. There are numerous studies, very few of which are funded by the pharmaceutical industry beyond the concept of "does this work, can we make money from it?" which they did decades ago and found to the contrary. You don't need to try it to know this, it's accepted by everyone except homeopaths and their dupes.

It absolutely does not work and if you had the slightest clue about how things are actually done you wouldn't keep spouting this nonsense. Don't push your ignorance onto others, it's dangerous.

Furthermore you keep hinting that the pharmaceutical companies are duplicitous and only out to make money yet you refuse to apply the same standards to the companies pushing these products. That's the very definition of double standards.

 

[YellowV2]

FFS. You really are determined to push this aren't you.

Homeopathy "works" on the basis of like cures like, i.e. if you have diarrhea then you consume something that gives you diarrhea except in extreme dilute format. There are numerous studies, very few of which are funded by the pharmaceutical industry beyond the concept of "does this work, can we make money from it?" which they did decades ago and found to the contrary. You don't need to try it to know this, it's accepted by everyone except homeopaths and their dupes.

It absolutely does not work and if you had the slightest clue about how things are actually done you wouldn't keep spouting this nonsense. Don't push your ignorance onto others, it's dangerous.

Furthermore you keep hinting that the pharmaceutical companies are duplicitous and only out to make money yet you refuse to apply the same standards to the companies pushing these products. That's the very definition of double standards.

I'm not sure who you think you are but I'm not trying to push anything onto anyone. All I am doing is saying that numpties like you shouldn't be telling people not to try something.
It absolutely does work for those that use it and that is all I am saying. You are the one determined to push your belief.

 

[si_c]

I'm not sure who you think you are but I'm not trying to push anything onto anyone. All I am doing is saying that numpties like you shouldn't be telling people not to try something.
It absolutely does work for those that use it and that is all I am saying. You are the one determined to push your belief.

I'm absolutely not a numpty and actually professionally qualified to understand how clinical trials work, and how we know what medical therapies do and don't work. You keep saying the same thing over and over again without evidencing your claims - in no small part because there is no evidence.

I am not pushing an agenda merely pointing out that you are advocating a remedy that doesn't work.

 

[vickster]

Placebo effect

Homeopathy