Charlie Alliston case - fixie rider accused of causing pedestrian death

[mjr]

business: things with which you/people are busy. Seems uncontroversial

Really? I think we should allow idleness too. But I'll stop this aside and suggest people return to the other part of my post, about motorists routinely using pavements too now - why should walkers thank motorists for not running them over when motorists rarely thank walkers for making space?

 

[Dan B]

I'll stop this aside

It was entirely within your gift to never have started it, but I suppose better late than never

 

[GrumpyGregry]

Ah, right. So not "on guard" but "exercising ordinary pedestrian vigilance". Thanks. That's much clearer.

Contemporary pedestrian vigilance is extraordinary on account of the hazards we blithely accept pedestrians have to manage. Bonkers.

 

[mjr]

[QUOTE 4939472, member: 43827"]What load of tosh that just makes you look petty. You choose to emphasis the meaning that supports your views rather than the meaning that the op clearly meant, and which most people would understand.[/QUOTE]
I'm pretty sure that the meaning given above is unusual, stretched to the point of distended, and not one shown in any dictionary, including such things as drunkenness and just aimlessly spending time being. I would have bet good money that no-one else would have given that definition (of course, now plenty would just to make a point).

Plenty of people do really suggest that town streets are for town business (Royston Vasey?) and not also for getting from A to B. Of course, that's a toxic idea and leads easily to quasimotorway bypasses cutting rural areas off from their local towns and people saying that 18mph is too fast to cycle along any town streets. So I'm sorry for aiming the boot at @swansonj if that really wasn't what was meant, but it did look like the argument put forward by the motoring lobby.

[QUOTE 4939472, member: 43827"]Edit: I just see that you realise how silly your point was and want us not to mention it.[/QUOTE]
Nah, I'd just rather that conversation returned more to considering the false belief that pavements aren't routinely used by motorists and the strange idea that walkers should thank motorists but not vice-versa... wouldn't you?

 

[GrumpyGregry]

[QUOTE 4939397, member: 43827"]Probably me being dense as usual, but are you defining a road or street that is used by motor vehicles, plus non-motorized vehicles e.g. bikes, as a shared public space, and are you saying that a pedestrian should not be expected to look out for traffic before crossing?
.[/QUOTE]
Yes. If the public highway is not a public shared space, what is it?

Why should the very people the shared spaces were created to serve be expected to modify their behaviour because of barbaric invasions of that space?

The pedestrians were there first. It is their space. Bikes and motors are the interlopers and carve out their space only via the threat (of violence) they present to the more vulnerable user.

 

[swansonj]

... I would have bet good money that no-one else would have given that definition (
...

Well, considering that, like most of the semi-intelligent things I occasionally come out with here, it was inspired by something originally said by @theclaud, I think I'm on reasonably safe ground in asserting that at least one other person would have done...

 

[Buck]

I'm pretty sure that the meaning given above is unusual, stretched to the point of distended, and not one shown in any dictionary, including such things as drunkenness and just aimlessly spending time being. I would have bet good money that no-one else would have given that definition (of course, now plenty would just to make a point).

Just making a point, but I would.

I understood @swansonj 's post to be very clear - people going about their business = going about their life. Certainly a common expression in my part of the world.

PS How much was that bet

 

[glasgowcyclist]

I understood @swansonj 's post to be very clear - people going about their business = going about their life. Certainly a common expression in my part of the world.

Exactly.

How often do we hear of something bad befalling a person who was cycling/walking along "minding his own business"?
It's common usage.

 

[GrumpyGregry]

[QUOTE 4939634, member: 43827"]No hyperbole there then.

My street and house were built in the 1930s. I have always assumed that they built the road for motorised and horse drawn transport and bikes, and built the pavements for pedestrians. Obviously I was wrong.[/QUOTE]
All aboard the hyperbole train is it?

Since pedestrians are allowed to use what you term "the road", indeed may walk down the middle of it if they want, play cricket on it if they wish, without any special permission, clearly, yes, you are wrong.

In your street where do the boundaries between the public and the private spaces actually lie.

 

[GrumpyGregry]

[QUOTE 4939634, member: 43827"]No hyperbole there then.[/QUOTE]
Out of interest why do you think pedestrians are shunted to the margins of public shared spaces, and herded in cages, and forced to detour by fences, if it isn't to protect the poor wee things from the violence that will be exacted upon them by "traffic" if they don't steer clear?

Somewhat in the manner of Lt Kaffey "If there is no danger, no threat of violence, why do they need to take care when they cross the road?"

 

[youngoldbloke]

All aboard the hyperbole train is it?

Since pedestrians are allowed to use what you term "the road", indeed may walk down the middle of it if they want, play cricket on it if they wish, without any special permission, clearly, yes, you are wrong.

In your street where do the boundaries between the public and the private spaces actually lie.

About 12" from the front door. The wall of the house abuts the pavement. I don't expect to be able to leave the safety of my porch and step into the 'shared public space' without looking to left, right and straight ahead, it's common sense really ........

 

[GrumpyGregry]

About 12" from the front door. The wall of the house abuts the pavement. I don't expect to be able to leave the safety of my porch and step into the 'shared public space' without looking to left, right and straight ahead, it's common sense really ........

I call bs.

You can see at least 90 degrees either side without turning your head. Just how fast are the people on your pavements moving?

 

[GrumpyGregry]

[QUOTE 4939824, member: 43827"]At my garden gate.

View attachment 371091 [/QUOTE]
Excellent. Then you agree that the public shared space is the whole of the space beyond your garden gate across to the boundary opposite.

Knew we'd get you there in the end.

 

[GrumpyGregry]

[QUOTE 4939892, member: 43827"] View attachment 371096 [/QUOTE]
[QUOTE 4939397, member: 43827"]Probably me being dense as usual, but are you defining a road or street that is used by motor vehicles, plus non-motorized vehicles e.g. bikes, as a shared public space,[/QUOTE]
HTH

 

[youngoldbloke]

I call bs.

You can see at least 90 degrees either side without turning your head. Just how fast are the people on your pavements moving?

WRONG - If the door was flush with the front wall of the house, maybe, but it is recessed by the thickness of the wall - actually 19". There is a very limited amount visible to the side without one joining the pavement. If you step out without looking there is a possibilty of collison with pedestrian, jogger, child on scooter, sometimes close to the wall.