Change come hard in the cycling community

[Hover Fly]

Stretching my memory here, but didn’t the CTC comic refuse to carry an advert for Neverreadys?

 

[matticus]

The advantage of disc brakes is not that you can stop in a shorter distance (As has been said you can lock the wheel with a caliper brake) but being able to apply full power with two fingers gives much greater control and feel above having to wrap your fist round the lever and squeeze hard.

Baloney. I've never had any trouble modulating my braking. From my crappy kids bikes, to my (fairly decent) dual-pivot nice bike, and my somewhat crappy commuter with cantis.

 

[Drago]

I can endo my rim braked felt in the wet. Ridden plenty of disc braked machines that couldn't do that (and 3 of my 4 bikes are discs before anyone calls me a dinosaur.)

Discs brakes can be superb, but are not automatically so.

Similarly, rim brakes can be dire, but wre not automatically so.

 

[Dogtrousers]

For no real good reason I'll repeat an anecdote I've told before.

When I was a lad doing a paper round and experimenting with fettling bikes I'd just done some work on the brakes on my bike assembled from bits and pieces. On my round the next morning I thought I'd test my brakes. Anyone who was up early enough in that quiet street would have been treated to the sight of the paper boy suddenly accelerating furiously and then, for no good reason, launching himself over the handlebars and landing in a heap with the bike on top of him.

Fortunately for me I don't think anyone was up that early.

They were Weinmann centrepulls btw. Probably steel rims.

 

[Ming the Merciless]

but surely press harder and you can lock the wheels

Sure, grab a fist full of brake and you can lock your wheels. No one is disputing that. But in reality that simply doesn’t happen, and you can brake in a safe controlled predictable and progressive manner, by gently increasing your pull on the lever, or holding the amount of pull steady or releasing a bit as required.

 

[Profpointy]

Sure, grab a fist full of brake and you can lock your wheels. No one is disputing that. But in reality that simply doesn’t happen, and you can brake in a safe controlled predictable and progressive manner, by gently increasing your pull on the lever, or holding the amount of pull steady or releasing a bit as required.

To be honest I've only noticed non-progressive braking, "grabbing" if you will, in the wet when the water gets rubbed off after a few revolutions. Happens on rim brakes and disk braked motorbikes. As I've admitted I've never ridden a disc braked push bike, but can't say I've noticed non-progressiveness (if that's a word) on the push bike compared to hydraulic disc braked cars or motorbikes. Maybe it's just something I naturally compensate for or doesn't matter to me much.

More stoppiness in the wet I do appreciate though!

 

[Ming the Merciless]

hydraulic disc braked cars or motorbikes.

I’d be wary of comparing what you’ve found on motorbikes and cars to bikes. Often quite different dynamics going on. Best is to try on a bike longer term and see what you think.

 

[mickle]

Probably not. When dual pivot calipers first came out there was a mix of those and the much less efficient older calipers in the peloton for a year or two and it didn't cause any problems.

The advantage of disc brakes is not that you can stop in a shorter distance (As has been said you can lock the wheel with a caliper brake) but being able to apply full power with two fingers gives much greater control and feel above having to wrap your fist round the lever and squeeze hard.

Did you ever hear the phrase "Cantis in the bunch"? Old boys when I started in the cycle industry referring to lads racing crits on cyclo-cross or touring bikes causing problems in the corners by outbraking the rest of the field using crappy single pivot side-pulls.

 

[Punkawallah]

Clipless is better for cycling, but it does then necessitate "special shoes" so for a practical journey like commuting to work, you need to leave a pair in the office. Despite having adopted clipless, in my case the MTB style I can walk in, it is still a bit of a turn off.

Disc brakes - am a bit ambivolent. Modern rim brakes are about 1000% better than the brakes I had as a kid, and modern pads (and alloy rims) are now pretty good even in the wet. I can pretty much lock the front wheel, and any old rubbish brakes will lock the back, so not sure there's that much improvement to be had. Admittedly wet weather performance is still an issue, but not a non-issue with discs either if my motrcycling experience is anything to go by. To be fair I've not tried disc brakes on a pedal bike, but nevertheless "ye cannae break the laws of physics" as a famous Scottish engineer once said

The nice boys from GCN did a road comparison of hydraulic disc, cable disc and rim brakes. The shortest stopping distances from a fixed point on the road at a set speed were in that order.

 

[Drago]

Perhaps the nice boys at GCN would like to try my bikes, where the 2nd best stopper is rim braked?

As aforementioned, they are not always automatically the most effective stoppers, and a small sample size by scientifically illiterate internet spodes gives a meaningless result.

 

[Dogtrousers]

In the last 30 or more years, there has been three really big improvement in cycling. They are click shift, clipless pedals, and disc brakes. I have been around long enough to see the introduction of all three. And in the case of all three, the cycling and especially the racing communities, pushed back really hard. Since all three had common sense and logic behind them, can anyone tell me why the cycling community resists change with such vigor?

I think this thread has your answer. Common sense and logic is very rarely clear cut. There are pros and cons to everything.

If things have the general consensus of "common sense and logic" behind them (indexed gears vs friction; clipless vs toeclips), then they are accepted quite quickly - but not necessarily universally because some people just have personal preference.

If the "common sense and logic" is more a nuanced "horses for courses" argument then there will be resistance. See the posts on brakes above.

Now, about those tubeless tyres ...

 

[classic33]

I think this thread has your answer. Common sense and logic is very rarely clear cut. There are pros and cons to everything.

If thing have the general consensus of "common sense and logic" behind them (indexed gears vs friction; clipless vs toeclips), then they are accepted quite quickly - but not necessarily universally because some people just have personal preference.

If the "common sense and logic" is more a nuanced "horses for courses" argument then there will be resistance. See the posts on brakes above.

Now, about those tubeless tyres ...

Are they a take on tubs that are glued onto the rims?

 

[Profpointy]

The nice boys from GCN did a road comparison of hydraulic disc, cable disc and rim brakes. The shortest stopping distances from a fixed point on the road at a set speed were in that order.

And yet, even with rim brakes I can lift the back wheel in the dry, so there is no more braking to be had.

 

[wafter]

Easily avoided by fitting mudguards

I'll fit some to my face to safeguard my viewing of bicycle-related internet content 👍

 

[Ming the Merciless]

cycling community resists change with such vigor?

I don’t think the community does. It’s just that the innovations you talk of are often only taken up when a bike is replaced. Since we are not busy upgrading bikes every 3 years it can take a while for things to take off.