weareHKR
Senior Member
- Location
- North East Coast - UK
Craking... 
Carlton Competition Identification!
- Thread starter John Smithy
- Start date
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KimComp
Well-Known Member
- Location
- Shepton Mallet, Somerset
@John Smithy Interesting to note the difference in serial no's. If it's just a straight forward production run number, then your frame was the 103,929th frame built after mine, they were probably not all "Competitions though! The only number in my serial no. that could identify the year is the first digit "1" which could be for 1971 and maybe your first digit "2" means it was produced in 1972? Who Knows!? 
Attachments
Illaveago
Guru
- Location
- Chippenham,Wiltshire.
There was quite a change by 1973 . No chrome , plain lugs , no wrap over seat stays which were thicker and not pencil thin. I'm a bit disappointed! Mine is white with blue banding on the seat tube .
KimComp
Well-Known Member
- Location
- Shepton Mallet, Somerset
I think I've seen your bike, has it got red handlebar tape? It's a shame they dropped the chrome. Maybe it had something to do with the take over by Raleigh + more modern ideas + cost cutting? Nice looking frame though and still 531 tubes I'm guessing? I see you are not too far from me, I'm in Shepton Mallet, Somereset.
OP
OP
John Smithy
Regular
KimComp
Well-Known Member
- Location
- Shepton Mallet, Somerset
You are most welcome John. Perhaps we have cracked one small piece of the serial no code? It would be interesting to see some more serial nos from this era. How's the rebuild coming along?@KimComp Interesting. That would actually make quite a bit of sense, as I think 1972 seems like a viable date for when he would of picked it up. Thanks so much
SV980
Regular
Hi there Spokesman .
Noticed your comment about Team BMB bike while attempting to dig up info on a frame I have .
Not a lot of info to be had on them it seems .
HAve you ever seen one " in the flesh '' ?
Spokesmann
Keeping the Carlton and Sun names alive...
- Location
- Plymouth, Devon
Yes - check out the Carlton Cycles Of Worksop Group on FB.
SV980
Regular
hi Mike
Greetings from New Zealand .
HAd a look through that facebook group when it was a "public" group .(now private) some time back .
The only bike I could find was a very nice replica made as a tribute from a GiRO ? frame .
I also heard from another contact, there was some debate a couple years ago about the date etc of my frame on the same group.
Not posted by me but by a member of FB group .
Was not able to find this either .
There is one specifc detail that makes me think it is a Team BMB frame from 1967/68
There are three raised areas on the top tube with a hole .
It has been suggested that these are the remnants of top tube cable guides which have been cut off.
This is not correct . I have photos of these areas covered with historical paint and chrome covering them .
Also there are some photos from the time of team race bikes which show frames with no top tube cable clips .
This would be fairly unusual at the time I would have thought ?
I wonder if Carlton experimented with an early plastic push in clip ?
All of the above leads back to my original question about someone having seen one in real life rather than photos and literature from back then .
Hope the above all makes sense ?
Any comments / criticism/ advise etc on above happily accepted .
Cheers Jonathan
Greetings from New Zealand .
HAd a look through that facebook group when it was a "public" group .(now private) some time back .
The only bike I could find was a very nice replica made as a tribute from a GiRO ? frame .
I also heard from another contact, there was some debate a couple years ago about the date etc of my frame on the same group.
Not posted by me but by a member of FB group .
Was not able to find this either .
There is one specifc detail that makes me think it is a Team BMB frame from 1967/68
There are three raised areas on the top tube with a hole .
It has been suggested that these are the remnants of top tube cable guides which have been cut off.
This is not correct . I have photos of these areas covered with historical paint and chrome covering them .
Also there are some photos from the time of team race bikes which show frames with no top tube cable clips .
This would be fairly unusual at the time I would have thought ?
I wonder if Carlton experimented with an early plastic push in clip ?
All of the above leads back to my original question about someone having seen one in real life rather than photos and literature from back then .
Hope the above all makes sense ?
Any comments / criticism/ advise etc on above happily accepted .
Cheers Jonathan
Illaveago
Guru
- Location
- Chippenham,Wiltshire.
Yes. It's off the road at the moment . It has a Campag BB which means my crank puller won't work. My brother made up an adaptor for it but the puller's threads stripped . I bought it as a frame , cranks and stem off the bay years ago .
Illaveago
Guru
- Location
- Chippenham,Wiltshire.
I think you are right about the cost cutting , but I think chroming became expensive at that time as chrome bumpers on cars from that period became painted versions . It is a shame as chrome stays on bikes look really nice .
crbeeching
Active Member
The Competition only appears in the Carlton catalogues between 1968 and 1970. My frame is identical in all features, but has at some stage in its past had a rather shabby 'rattle-can' respray (in a hideous metallic blue). Braze-ons match those other two in this thread with the exception of a gear hangar - but on closer inspection it appears mine has been sawn off. There's no mention of a 'Competition' model in the '71 catalogue, nor subsequently. The '69-'70 catalogue lists a 'Competition' as a frame only (no chrome), and a 'Corsa Strada Competition' which appears to be a very different animal with centre-pull rear brake hangar and top-tube brake cable stops. The Corsa Strada version also doesn't carry any reference to 531 tubing. I suspect, therefore, that the Competition (in its own right, and only ever 'frame only' was a rather nice frame, to be built up as a bespoke machine by each owner. So with the earlier two in this thread, and mine (frame number 148936) we can be pretty sure they fall between early 1968 and late 1970. Anyone have any more information?
Attachments
crbeeching
Active Member
Apologies - to add a little more 'flesh on the bone', the later Competition II appeared with chamfered seat stays and Nervex lugs in 1972. No 'Competition' model was offered in '71, so there are two distinct types of Competition frame; the early (68-70) style with wrap-over seat stays, a break in '71, and then the Mk II from 72 onwards for a few years. It would be interesting to know whether the Mk IIs had a different (ie not 6-number) frame numbering system.
